Are you saying all of that to agree with me or not? I just said the same thing to you a few comments back. make sure you read the comments before you post. It doesn’t help your argument.

I don’t get why you felt the need to write all that?

I told you, judge sin, not the heart. You just said the same thing. I said before that, the stuff on this blog (not the blog post but blog) that some of us have said “don’t judge them” on, is on the other blog posts which are not dealing with sin, but wisdom. There is no need to judge someone over a method. There is a reason to judge the ACTIONS of someone if they are in sin. I have actually agreed with the commentators of this blog on the last couple of issues.

“Loving the world and the things of the world is sin.
Seeking the approval of the world is sin, especially for a preacher.
Failure of a shepherd to feed the flock is sin.
Lording it over your brothers and sisters is sin.
Teaching false doctrine is sin.
Failure to repent of sin is sin.”

When you got to this point in your comment (assuming you are speaking about NS) you started assuming too much (you only have one example you can use for the last one). You don’t know any of these things for a fact.

But, please, if you are the all knowing God that stares into the hearts and everyday lives of man, please let me know. I will take back my last comment.

Self-glorification (pride) is sin.
Making light of the word of God is sin.
Ridiculing men of God for preaching the Word is sin.
Coarse joking and unwholesome talk is sin.
Failure to heed Godly reproof is sin.
Abusive speech is sin.
Loving the world and the things of the world is sin.
Seeking the approval of the world is sin, especially for a preacher.
Failure of a shepherd to feed the flock is sin.
Lording it over your brothers and sisters is sin.
Teaching false doctrine is sin.
Failure to repent of sin is sin.

These items are not negotiable, and it is not a matter of perspective. Sin is not justifiable even for the purpose of “reaching out” to people. Jesus taught us by his example and words what true reaching out is. It is preaching the gospel and the kingdom of God…repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ…teaching people to observe all things that Jesus commanded, etc. God hates sin and does not endorse it, condone it, or need it as a means to draw people to His Son.

I can’t judge a man’s heart as to his motives or the status of his soul before God, but I can judge a man’s doctrine and behavior. Scripture clearly tells me that I can discern a false teacher. And when I do, the Word commands me to turn away from him. Not to look for mitigating factors or make excuses for him, but to turn away.

I said it before, and I’ll say it again. These cats are arsenic.

Check out the blog on “Question me, oppose God.” I’m agreeing on the big issues.

I think part of the communication that is getting lost in my defense of NS is that I’m just trying to point out that some of the issues that people get up in arms about on here sometimes are issues that are not about sin, but maybe wisdom or just a different perspective on how to reach people. In defending them, I’m really trying to defend their right and freedom to reach people the way they feel people are best reached. I am a lot more free minded in approach. I personally, especially knowing my kids, my church and their culture don’t think it would be wise at all for me to run my youth group like NS’s. It would have the opposite effect on my ministry. Plus, I don’t mind being shocking, but I’d rather be shocking with the truth then with a gimmick. If shocking gimmicks bring people to listen, ok, I’m not with it 100% but I won’t criticize because they are reaching people. That isn’t me though. If I offend or shock, I want it to be through the radical truth of the gospel. Does that make sense? I hope that explains my intentions.

I just know the intentions and heart of some of the NS staff and know that they are doing what they are doing to bring people to the gospel of Jesus Christ. They want to transform lives. I think that is awesome. If they are accomplishing that, which I think they are then I’m not going to criticize their methods. Not unless they step over the sin line. Some people on here think that they have at times. I don’t yet. The closest blog post to them getting close to that line is the “Question me, oppose God.” post. I think the semantics are dangerous. I don’t think they mean what we are supposing they mean, but I would be very cautious about saying something the way Furtick says it. I think he steps over that line with his language. His intentions may not be stepping over the line, but his words are.

The odd thing here is that you don’t follow your own advice. You want others to practice the “2 positives for every 1 negative” rule, but you give yourself a pass (see your 7/23 post).

Your youth do seem to be rubbing off on you. This can be bad or good. This depends on your perspective. This is not a personal jab, it’s an assessment of your comments. They seem to display a youth mentality. This may make you a great youth minister. I dunno.

It seems to me what you really want is a gush-fest where we heap on praise and adoration to NS, etc, and never offer any criticism. You seem incapable of being neutral. If a negative comment comes in about NS, you rush in to defend. NS is never wrong? Never in need of correction? Wow. That’s quite a church.

I assume too much sometimes when I write. This is what I meant:

first, debating isn’t critiquing. I Don’t mind if you don’t agree. That doesn’t bother me, but that was in response to negative slanders and critiques of my ministry (i.e. the 11 year old comment and the “you hang out with your youth too much and they are rubbing off on you” comment.) If you want to critique my maturity, it would be best to offer up a couple good things you see before throwing that in because it is personal. This also makes you get to know the person before you make any personal remarks, negative or positive.

2) I was also saying that to suggest that we post two good things about NS before a critique. If they are reading this then I think it would help them take the critiques easier because they wouldn’t see only negative stuff everytime they got on the blog. If I were at NS I would be very defensive towards people that are only negative about my ministry. I think it will help them listen to you and respect what you have to say more. Only negative all the time is hard to listen to for anyone.

I’m not out looking for encouragment on here, but I’m just asking for encouragement before a personal slam or at least after it. I have friends that have critiqued me harshly before but they encourage me enough to make the negative times easier to recieve.

Aside from all of this I want ya’ll to know that I really like being on this blog. Even though I don’t get to know you completely personally, I appreciate the false sense of fellowship and I would rather talk to someone like ya’ll who are passionate and who may even at times completely disagree with everything I stand for then someone who doesn’t care. Ya’ll are passionate and fun to talk to. I like that and I appreciate ya’ll letting me continue to be a part of the discussions.

1) I’m so confused, MW. Please get this straight and then let all of us know which it is: Either you’re here to encourage “for every critique you give at least two encouragements” (7/24) or you’re not: “I’m not looking for encouragment [sic]” (7/26).

2) Practice what you preach.

You are correct that you can judge sin as sin and I would agree that putting yourself or your creativity over God or His word is sinful. A lot of stuff that we say “don’t judge” is stuff that is not sinful. It is stuff that is simply unwise. You can’t judge the heart of man, but you can judge his actions if they blatantly go agaist scripture. I don’t know if Furtick would outright say he is doing this and may not be completely, but he is pushing that line hard in saying some of this stuff. To me that is extremely dangerous. I pray that he doesn’t think of himself more highly then God or His word. That would definitely be worth naming names over.

I’m not looking for encouragment, I’m looking to hash out issues without the personal bashing.

“Just try to refrain from those (personal remarks) and let’s hash out issues. It would help me not become so defensive.” – from my last post.

Wanting to just hash out the issues is what I said. I would much rather talk about the issues only.

Ya’ll also accuse me of getting to serious but all I see on this is serious. You can’t throw blows at each other and at New Spring and not expect people to take it seriously. I wouldn’t walk up to someone at church and punch them in the face and say “oh, don’t take that seriously, I was just joking.” To me, that is more immature than saying groping your wife is ok. It’s also very unwise. You will end up getting punched back. Don’t cry when you do.