A quick thought experiment 17

For those who would discount Cooper’s bamf description of his church because he only used the initials, not the actual words, let me ask you this:

If someone tells you to your face that you are full of bee ess, are you offended any less than if he or she used the full words?

If a child responds to a parent’s instruction with an eff eewww, do you think the parent should just take it in stride because the kid didn’t actually say the magic word?

It wouldn’t happen in my world, and I doubt it would happen in yours.

Regardless, it should never happen in church.

17 thoughts on “A quick thought experiment

  1. B. Rink Apr 13, 2009 4:01 pm

    Aren’t we talking about different contexts here? If a child responds that way or someone says that you are full of BS, that is offensive. But is Cooper really meaning what the words originally meant or is he using it as a slang term? I would say the latter, but I can see where it wouldn’t be taken that way. Ultimately, he is using a comedian’s slang term on a Twitpic caption. Maybe that is a big deal, I just don’t see it.

  2. James Duncan Apr 13, 2009 4:13 pm

    Two points.

    One, would you let Chris Rock preach in your church using that language? I may just be a fuddy duddy, but I don’t see the joke.

    Two, the context is that you are speaking in church about church. That context must take precedence over whatever slang or comedy you think is warranted. You shouldn’t use that language anywhere, but I know that we need to pay even closer attention to our words when we talk of or to God.

  3. Sara Grumbles Apr 13, 2009 6:21 pm

    @ BRink: In what way are the words that “bamf” stands for ever not offensive?

  4. B. Rink Apr 13, 2009 7:14 pm

    @Sara Grumbles,

    Like I was saying, I don’t think Cooper is meaning it in a offensive way. It’s a slang term used by a popular comedian that equates to a trite term like cool or awesome. A person is only going to be offended by it if they choose to be. There is no ill intent towards a person or a group of persons. It is a guy using a term on his TwitPic account.

  5. James Duncan Apr 13, 2009 7:21 pm

    A guy = a pastor.

    Using a term = a very offensive term

    On his TwitPic account = on a service which ensures that it’s repeated on his blog that is intended for his congregation (and the world) to read.

    In other words, move along… there’s nothing to see here.

    (Not that it matters, but who is the comedian?)

  6. James Duncan Apr 13, 2009 7:24 pm

    By the way, I wasn’t concerned about ill intent to a person. He was talking about his own church, for goodness sake.

    Thing is, I was also under the impression that he was talking about Christ’s church.

  7. B. Rink Apr 13, 2009 7:59 pm

    That’s the basic message. I didn’t know of the term before reading your blog, but from a Google search, it is attributed to Dane Cook.

  8. James Duncan Apr 13, 2009 9:27 pm

    Thanks for the 411. I found this interesting quote from Cook in his Wikipedia entry:

    “I wanted to create a stage persona for myself that allowed me to really speak about anything I want… So I can be a storyteller, I can be jokey, I can be corny, I can be a little vulgar, I can be a lot vulgar. And I’m not afraid to go anywhere to get the point of the joke across.”

    You can all draw your own connections.

  9. Tommy F. Apr 13, 2009 11:33 pm

    @ BRink: Back to JDuncan’s question: Since you are not offended (so far), would you be offended had BCoop actually typed in the words, rather than the acronym? Or what if he announced an upcoming gathering in this way (for example: this Wed is going to be bamf)? So, if you’re not offended by the language BCoop uses, why not consider the next level, to see where it might go…. What about teens (in his youth group), whom I would guess are a decent portion of his audience, who will seek to emulate and mimic him? What’s to keep a teenager from using this “slang” term and when confronted by a … parent, sibling, teacher, or any responsible adult (apparently though not associated with NS) from saying: “This isn’t offensive language. It’s what my youth minister uses to describe my church.” Takes a bit of the intended humor out of it, wouldn’t you say?

    NS has a new bumper sticker available this Sunday. Please pick up the new one to replace the old one.
    It reads: NewSpring Church. Our people are excrement. Our inspiration is Dane Cook. Our facility is BAMF.

  10. Micah Apr 13, 2009 11:53 pm

    “Like I was saying, I don’t think Cooper is meaning it in a offensive way.”

    I played soccer with 20 guys in high school who used the f-bomb, meaning it in a non-offensive way, like “you’re $%#@ing awesome!” The way we “mean” to say things doesn’t change their actual meaning. There are absolutes.

  11. B. Rink Apr 14, 2009 12:32 am

    I’m just taking Devil’s Advocate here to defend the guy. Personally, I don’t think it’s in great taste for a pastor to say, but it’s not me that said it. I’m just trying to show that there is another side to the story. It is pretty easy to presume that he is not trying to offend all of Christianity by an acronym slang on his TwitPic account. As always Tommy F., you put a nice wrap on the situation. Kudos to you.

  12. Twit Conway Apr 14, 2009 7:01 am

    @BRink: There IS no other side to the story… it’s just inexcusable. It would be offensive if he referred to his mother or your mother in those terms – it’s even more offensive that he referred to the Church – Christ’s bride – like that.

    BCoop seems to be representing the church that Jesus died for to sanctify to himself as fighting any signs of sanctification with all the foul, degrading filth it can. Has he taken Jerry Hall’s advice to brides to be whores in the bedroom too literally? Is he thinking: “I wonder if the groom likes to talk dirty?”

  13. James Duncan Apr 14, 2009 5:17 pm

    God bless you, BRink.

    I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to think of some analogy to describe what you do. I know there are a lot of folk who agree with you who are reading this too, but they seem content to let you wage the battle alone. You pop your head up and get slammed from all angles. Maybe you enjoy it (I usually do), but you should know that you are doing your side a great service.

    You don’t necessarily always have my agreement, but you do have my respect.

  14. Simeon Duncan Apr 14, 2009 9:39 pm

    @BRink: in Australia we’d call you ‘ballsy’.

    Like James says, good on you for having the strength to put your views out there, knowing that there’s a good chance there’ll be others who’ll smack them down. When James says ‘God bless you’ – he means it. I know, he’s my brother. James and I don’t always agree (he hasn’t always appreciated his younger brother’s wisdom), but I know that he respects those who’re prepared to fight for their corner.

    Surely you have more NS friends who could join you and at least ‘share the burden’ of defending some of its practices as you do.

  15. Tommy F. Apr 14, 2009 11:10 pm

    @Simeon: “share the burden.” I’m not sure PNob has ever preached on that passage, so they might not quite understand the concept. At least we know this: they don’t practice it here.

    @BRink: James and Simeon are right. You’ve got thousands to choose from. Here’s a thought: maybe you should start with a text/tweet/email/call to BCoop, who could bless us with his explanation/defense, rather than let you take the fire. Then he could prove once and for all … he’s one bamf.

  16. Twit Conway Apr 15, 2009 1:43 am

    @Tommy F: perhaps its been a while since you’ve been by BCoop’s blog, but given the quality discourse there, BRink’s probably doing a better job explaining. BCoop thinks, though I’m not certain, that “clever repartee fills his mouth” (BAMF), and that “rhythm saturates his ears” (Highway to Hell), but I am fairly sure life floods his veins (good for you BCoop).

    Would be good to hear from BCoop or NS’s BAMF supporters at least.

  17. Twit Conway Apr 15, 2009 3:06 am

    In my last comment, “NS’s BAMF supporters” was a call to those who support the use of “BAMF” at NS, NOT a characterisation of NS’s supporters 😉

Comments are closed.