A study in contrasts 48

Piper tweets this:

If someone offers you pleasure for 10,000 years, say, “No thanks…at HIS right hand are pleasures for EVERMORE” (Ps 16:11)

Perry tweets this:

Got a new T-shirt in support of breast cancer research that says, “Save a life, grope your wife.” Thinking about wearing it…should I?

(BTW, PN, the answer is no.)

48 thoughts on “A study in contrasts

  1. MW Jul 3, 2009 3:57 pm

    A + B does not = C

    A+B = AB

    Grope + Marital Context = Fondling sexually within her will (good)

  2. MW Jul 3, 2009 4:03 pm

    I’ll be real honest with you guys. One thing I don’t like is the constant nitpicking and bashing of New Spring. They may be shocking at times but I don’t think one church warrants this kind of abuse over another. I could bash my own church in just as many ways over other issues but I don’t. I try to encourage my brothers and cover their sins, issues and problems with love and hope for God to work in their life. I am not on board with everything New Spring does every day but they are doing some awesome things and reaching people that no one else is. I think that is awesome! and they have my support and prayers.

  3. James Duncan Jul 3, 2009 6:06 pm

    MW, I appreciate the partial walk back on the liar accusation. It’s not a strange or unusual definition. I knew that meaning was there before looking in a dictionary. I’m sure you found other definitions that describe grope as handling in a rough fashion. It’s not a great word.

    You talk about us making this into a sin issue. Where? Who? As I said early on, this is just a part of being a gentleman. You were the one who started beating the drum on legalism. You interpreted our manners as sin-based commandants. We didn’t.

    Your last post about bashing NS was interesting. Where’s the NS bashing here? All I did was quote Perry. If anything, we’ve been bashing your over-the-top embrace of the shirt. I actually think Perry has more wisdom than you appear to have here. He, at least, thought twice and asked for advice before wearing it. That, I can respect.

    Thinking that a “no” answer on wearing the shirt is the same as opposing sexual foreplay, I don’t.

    (The don’t-mess-with-me,-I’m-a-pastor argument, I’ll leave to Tommy to deal with.)

  4. Tommy F. Jul 3, 2009 7:20 pm


    Wow. Talk about taking something personal. All I did was guess (correctly it appears) your occupation and you start throwing around sovereignty…. A bit testy?

    Bottom line: I think it’s curious you actually don’t think PNoble should wear the shirt in church, just like many commenters here. And yet, for all that, you have thrown down quite the criticisms: we’re legalists and we belong in England.

    I think you ought to think through the rhetoric you use when making your points. Volatility isn’t an endearing trait. A calm, sustained, argument is something I admire. To bad you never really offered one.

    It appears at the end of the day you defend NS’s pastor for not wearing a shirt at church that only legalists wouldn’t wear – even though you’re not wearing it this Sunday, either. Nice.

    This is your argument. If you don’t like it, argue against yourself.

  5. MW Jul 3, 2009 7:25 pm

    That wasn’t a I’m a pastor don’t mess with me comment. But you would take it out of context that way. That was a before you go throwing slanders at me and questioning whether I can do my job or not, remember who put me in this position. You are really good with twisting what prole say aren’t you?

  6. MW Jul 3, 2009 7:42 pm


    Are you honestly that hypocritcal? You have been slandering me since I got on this thing.
    Who are you to accuse me of somethinou practice every comment towards me. I thin I’m done with this blog.

    Ya’ll have a good one! Illl leave you to it.

  7. David J Jul 3, 2009 7:47 pm


    Go apply to work at NewSpring. Your attitude would fit right in with PN and Brad Cooper.

  8. Tommy F. Jul 3, 2009 8:52 pm


    Two things:
    1) Your NS application should be expedited. Just print off this comment area. When I re-read your entries it appears you are auditioning for a position. I hear they’re trying to fill Columbia positions. Good luck. Maybe wearing the t-shirt at the interview will help. My other thought is that you already work there. I can’t decide.

    2) I can’t see where I slandered you. Of course, it appears we’re working with different dictionaries, so I’m not sure what yours actually says. I do apologize for the false accusations. I may have gotten your age wrong by a year or two. Ultimately, all I did was observe that your youth are influencing you in how you engage discussion, and not in a good way. This is fully affirmed now that you end with: “I got go in now. I can’t play with you all again.”

    Enjoy your supper, MW. The adults are staying up late tonight.

  9. Tommy F. Jul 3, 2009 9:01 pm

    MW (and others),

    Sorry about the additional reply. You seem to have influenced me – now I am issuing multiple replies in a row. I’ll call it the MW effect.

    This “remember who put me in this position” isn’t really a good argument (and you’ve tried it twice in one day). Since you are in fact a pastor, I wouldn’t necessarily begin with sovereignty as legitimation. After all Gary Lamb was a pastor. A lot of good it did him, his family, his mistress, and his flock.

    If you’ve got a “I’m a minister” chip on your shoulder (slander disclaimer: and I’m not saying you do), I’d start shaving it down. Pride isn’t very attractive. And God’s sovereignty shouldn’t lead you in that direction anyway. The way I read JCalvin, it appears the appropriate response to sovereignty is (among other things) humility for being in your position. It’s a much better plan for the long and short term for all involved.

  10. KeithO Jul 3, 2009 10:40 pm

    It appears from the comments that a lot of “groping” is going on. It is really pretty simple. The contrasts between the tweats is very clear.

    One is profound, the other is profane and common.

    One is thought provoking, the other is just provacative.

    One shows the maturity level of the author. Well, they both do.

    One was purposefully written, the other has no apparent redeeming value.

    One is from a minister who is using twitter to bring attention to the Kingdom of God. The other brings attention to himself.

    If you told me one of the tweats was from a minister and the other from some Joe at the local pub, I bet I could pick the minister.

  11. Tyler Sloan Jul 4, 2009 1:18 am

    I’ve noticed the comment section of this blog is only to argue with each other. This is not iron sharpening iron. I don’t need to go super Christian on any of you for you to understand what I mean. As I’m typing this I am wondering what minute details you guys will pick apart to cut me down, I mean, sharpen me as a believer.

    I’d say, as a Piper fan, Perry has a bit more of a sense of humor that relates to this southern culture that we live in. There is nothing wrong with it. Is it different? It is, but what is the crime? I bet Piper would find humor in some things you guys disagree with. Who cares if he tweets about it. If it pisses you off so much quit following him. And if you don’t actually twitter, quit checking these people’s twitters just to criticize them.

    Alright, go. What’d I say you can trap me in? I’m dying to be schooled by you.

    • James Duncan Jul 4, 2009 9:48 pm


      I think you nailed it. Well said.


      At least you’ve refused to use the comments section to argue with someone. It’s what comments are for. If it bothers you, may I recommend Perry’s or Furtick’s blogs, where you’ll never have to worry about comments. Personally, I’d prefer to have all commentators tell me how right I am (not even Twit and Tommy always do that, sadly). To enforce that, would you prefer that I follow BCoop’s example and boot commentators like MW?

      I don’t think this was a debate about minute issues. A local youth pastor apparently couldn’t discern the difference between not wearing a crude tee-shirt and having sex with one’s wife. That was worth disagreeing with.

      I think you’ll find that the comments on this post criticized MW much more than PN. You might have missed it, but I gave PN a bit of an attaboy along the way.

      Thanks for popping by. Class dismissed.

  12. Tommy F. Jul 5, 2009 8:52 am

    Wow, Tyler. I wish you’d commented sooner. I feel so sharp from your comment. Thanks. You’ve truly shown us how to do it better. Come by more often.

  13. David J Jul 5, 2009 10:18 am


    Is it a requirement for NS staff(I’m assuming you are staff..correct me if I’m wrong) to simply tell people “if you don’t like it leave.”?

    Why the cuss word? Can you not convey a point without the “Pi$% you off” slogan like PN? Ever read Colossians 3:8 (New International Version)

    8 But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

    Would you wear this t-shirt to church?

  14. KeithO Jul 5, 2009 1:47 pm

    This study in contrasts between the 2 twitter comments demonstrates to me the way many (including me) are still “groping” (OK, I’m even tired of the pun now) with this way of communicating with others. Businesses are fast trying to incorporate how best to use twitter to do one thing – improve the bottom line. Churches are trying to find ways to use twitter in their ministries to do one thing – improve the bottom line; however that may be defined. It seems Piper’s tweet is the most appropriate for one reason; it draws attention to God’s Kingdom. You don’t see Piper in his tweet. You get a glimpse of something more important.

    I have to say as an older person (I have a child in college) I am having problems seeing the redeeming value of twitter as it is commonly used and I struggle to get beyond its underlying narcissism.

    But then, by using twitter, a business person points me to some relevant information, a link perhaps, and then Piper puts forward a very profound thought and I have to say, there may be potential afterall.

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