At least take a swing 17

I had actually been looking forward to Perry Noble’s current series on the end times, happy that he was tackling a topic that demands some serious study and thinking. The series was prompted by a survey of NewSpring members months ago where Noble asked what topics they would like him to preach on. Noble reported that the end times was the number-one request.

I was impressed that Noble had stepped up the plate. After last weekend, it looks like he’s been given the take sign from the coach.

I did NOT get into pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, pre-millennial, post-millennial…or ANYTHING else along those lines because…I do not CARE!

I’d offer a critique, but what do I care?

17 thoughts on “At least take a swing

  1. James Downing Oct 2, 2009 1:24 pm

    If he didn’t get into those things, one has to wonder, what DID he get into?

  2. James Duncan Oct 2, 2009 1:31 pm

    Sex trafficking.

    I kid not.

  3. James Downing Oct 2, 2009 1:37 pm

    Oh my.

    Now I must actually listen.

  4. dl Oct 2, 2009 3:27 pm

    …as an example of love growing cold. To illustrate signs that the season is approaching.

  5. JT Oct 2, 2009 3:53 pm

    Correction: The sermon was on the signs of the end times that Jesus warns about in Matthew 24. Sex Trafficking was used an an example of love growing cold, as mentioned in Matt. 24:12.

  6. Scott Oct 2, 2009 4:12 pm

    I watched, it was like being back in a Sociology class in college, not a biblical discussion.

  7. James Duncan Oct 2, 2009 8:11 pm

    JT,

    I haven’t listened to the sermon all the way through, but does Noble think that sex trafficking is a new thing? Does he think it’s worse now than it has ever been? (Notwithstanding ACORN’s efforts to promote it, of course.)

  8. Paul Oct 2, 2009 10:09 pm

    if Noble’s theology of end times is as bad as his theology of the church…we are all in a heap of trouble.

  9. Josh Oct 2, 2009 10:25 pm

    It does seem kinda weaselly to promote a series on End Times then refuse to take a position on the major End Times issues. Still, I pretty much take his stance myself. How one interprets Daniel, Luke and Relelation as it relates to End Times doesn’t change the gospel at all and reasonable minds can disagree, imo. It’s not something I’m remotely dogmatic about, and I’m not afraid to be dogmatic about lots of things 🙂

    If I was in his church I’d be interested in his interpretation, though, so I’d be a little disappointed that it was the same old sermon packaged a different way.

    • James Duncan Oct 2, 2009 10:40 pm

      That’s right. I wasn’t expecting that I would agree with his position, but that would not have been a big deal. Like you said, there’s room for disagreement on these issues, so I wasn’t going to take issue with whatever position he took.

      That was assuming he was going to take a position. It’s sad that a pastor would leave his congregation in the dark on what their church believes on this, especially knowing that there’s such a hunger to understand this topic (number 1 out of all topic requests).

      I remember my Christian high school Bible curriculum surveyed all the major end time positions, then added an assignment for each student to meet with his or her pastor to find out what he said about it. It would be too bad if you were a young NewSpringer.

      Noble probably claims that because we can’t know the day or hour, that there’s no point in caring about this. From what I see–Hal Lindsey and a few others excepted–most proponents of these various positions don’t suggest days and hours. If God is a God who cares for and intervenes in human history, knowing the basic outline of how this chapter ends seems like something all Christians should care something about.

  10. Jeff Oct 3, 2009 7:18 am

    This young man demonstrates a greater, more illuminating, symptom of the end times (than what he chose), by purporting to ‘pastor’ people and say “…I don’t CARE.”

    That a much clearer fulfillment of Matt 24:10-12…

    Mat 24:10 “And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another.
    Mat 24:11 “And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.
    Mat 24:12 “And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.

    Those who ‘pastor’ should care deeply about ALL things the word of God speaks to, especially what pertains to the spiritual health of others. If one says he does not ‘CARE’, it probably means he does not ‘UNDERSTAND’.

    Perhaps the people who wanted to hear about the end times will be disappointed by his approach and feel they are not being fed and go away. That may be the best thing they could do.

  11. KeithO Oct 3, 2009 1:54 pm

    To All,

    My opinion is we should care only in the context of being ready as this great day approaches. The lesson is to be prepared to live in the Kingdom with God when Christ returns. To do this we start while we live in the Kingdom here.

    JDuncan, I’ll push back a little on you with the Hal Lindsey point. There are alot more Hal Lindsey types out there today and it seems their main interest is predicting the time of Christ’s return. They change their tune with the geopolitical landscape. I have seen this for over 30 years. They have their entire lives here to get their story straight. Again, the big point: Be Prepared.

  12. James Duncan Oct 3, 2009 8:11 pm

    KeithO,

    I wouldn’t disagree that there are too many day-and-hour types, especially on TV and left behind in bookstores. What I saw at the beginning of PN’s sermon was that he was banging the drum that he was not going to set a day and hour, as if that’s what every other pastor did. I suspect that’s how he justifies not “caring” about the broad sequences of eschatology.

    My point is that you can take any of those positions without locking yourself into day and hour, even though there still are some who do, as you say.

  13. Paul Oct 3, 2009 9:08 pm

    IF newspring’s pastor isn’t going to at least teach them these things, and help them understand eschatology, they will get it from somewhere else whether Haggee, Lindsey, the left behind series, etc. ONe does not have to go overboard here, but noble could at least teach these positions, and challenge his congregation to intereact with different positions, and examine the Scrptures to see if they are right. “Not caring” is a cop out. He should care…not so much on actually landing on a clear position, but an opportunity to teach.

  14. David J Horn Oct 3, 2009 10:32 pm

    Paul,

    Teaching takes a back seat to controversy/bait&switch at NewSpring.

    I too was looking forward to what PN was going to say during this sermon.

  15. James Duncan Oct 4, 2009 12:07 am

    Can a NSer point us to a teaching series where Noble has tackled a complicated theological issue where he exhibited and demanded a high level of critical thinking?

  16. Micah Taylor Oct 7, 2009 2:51 am

    hmm. People accused Paul of wanting too much knowledge and seeking to learn too much (Acts 26:24).

    Good thing he didn’t listen.

    Good thing he cared.

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