Baptists’ message to NewSpring: You’re not one of us 80

The official publication of the South Carolina Baptist Convention carried a public rebuke of Noble and NewSpring

The official publication of the South Carolina Baptist Convention carried a public rebuke of Noble and NewSpring

The South Carolina Baptist Convention has told Perry Noble and NewSpring that they must correct serious errors in their church before they can once again associate with the Convention. In a bold and praiseworthy statement, the president of the SCBC, Tommy Kelly, turned what has been general public criticism of NewSpring into official church discipline, though the public rebuke went much further than just the Ten Commandments sermon. Kelly condemned Noble’s pulpit profanity, his sloppy exegesis and preaching, his lack of accountability and inability to receive correction. It also criticized NewSpring’s regular use of anti-christian music in its services.

After Noble’s persistent defense of his error and his obvious antipathy towards the Baptist Convention, it’s hard to see this public rebuke making much difference inside the executive offices at NewSpring. Instead, this is really a warning for everyone else. Kelly instructed every Baptist church in South Carolina to publicly state the truth regarding Noble’s teaching and remove themselves from being associated with NewSpring.

The statement appears to concede that the Convention has already separated itself from NewSpring, and it demands that NewSpring must correct its positions on worship, doctrine, accountability and biblical scholarship before the church is again permitted to associate itself with the Convention. That the statement was made publicly suggests that Kelly doesn’t think it’s going to happen.

It’s highly unlikely that a denominational leader would publicly ambush one of his own churches with something so serious, so I think it’s certain that Kelly has already talked to Noble privately about the denomination’s concerns. For Kelly to have gone public suggests that Noble rejected his correction quickly and unequivocally, with Noble understanding that the consequences would be expulsion from the Convention. On Thursday afternoon Noble tweeted, “Pressure is nothing more than a call to humility!” The statement, which didn’t seem to fit any particular flow of thought in his Twitter feed, was likely his response to Kelly’s warnings. Noble and Kelly probably spoke for the last time on Thursday afternoon. Kelly’s announcement was published in the Convention’s official newspaper and website on Friday morning.

Over the last week, Noble’s Tweets have indicated that he is not willing to be corrected, and he resents it that other Christians are still criticizing him. Here’s a sequence from the last few days:

Sometimes “fighting the good fight” means knowing which fights to walk away from. (Jan 12)

Unless a person is willing to be misunderstood they will never make a difference. (Jan 13)

The world would be a good place if sinners repented of sin. The world would be an AMAZING place if religious people repented of religion! (Jan 14)

Get that? Religious people are more harmful to the world than sinners. If you didn’t know that his man was a pastor, would you assume he wanted to be identified as a member of Christ’s church?

I think Kelly knows in his heart that Noble is gone for good, so he’s doing the right thing as a faithful leader in God’s church to warn others not to associate with Noble or his church. Assuming the separation is a permanent one, how might this affect NewSpring?

NewSpringers

Many will be surprised that NewSpring is even associated with the Southern Baptists, so discovering that they’ve lost that affiliation won’t matter much. Though some have already left over the Commandments sermon, if they’ve stood with Noble through his obvious error, they’ll probably stand with him through a denominational rebuke, too.

Noble

Noble will probably be relieved to be done with the Baptists as a denomination, with whom his connection springs primarily from their $20,000 investment in NewSpring’s founding. Noble has announced that he has paid that investment back (with 3 percent annualized interested added), so he probably assumes he has no further obligation to them.

It’s possible this affects his future publishing efforts. In late December Noble announced that he submitted the manuscript for his third book, though it remains to be seen whether any publisher is willing to take a risk on him now that he has built a reputation for embracing obvious error to the point of being disavowed by his own denomination. Noble’s publisher, Tyndale House, is under intense pressure at the moment for knowingly publishing factually false and biblically unsound books. Mark Driscoll’s next book was put on indefinite hold by Tyndale when he was engulfed in scandal last year, so it’s not a stretch to see that happening to Noble as well. As NewSpring’s dependance on Result Source demonstrated, there’s not a huge market (that’s not on NewSpring’s payroll) that’s anxiously waiting for Noble’s next book.

NewSpring Staff

The example of Mark Driscoll’s departure from Mars Hill Church and its almost immediate implosion must have a few NewSpring staffers concerned. How long can Noble continue his duties as a pastor if he stubbornly clings to obvious heresy? How does NewSpring survive if he walks away? It would be reassuring to see a few staff leave as a matter of principle, though there might be a few who are seeing the writing on the wall and are quietly freshening their resumes.

Fuse

NewSpring’s mid-week youth ministry attracts many youth from other churches, even though they return to their parents’ church on Sundays. Once parents discover that NewSpring’s own denomination is warning people to stay away, will they continue to allow their children to be a part of it, especially if they attend SCBC churches on Sunday?

NewSpring College

The college promises to prepare its students for church work, and most probably plan to stay with NewSpring. Smart students should be tracking Noble’s recent doctrinal trajectory and thinking about where he’ll be (both doctrinally and physically) in two years. If they do stick it out, will other Baptist churches place much stock in a diploma from a church that has just been expelled from their denomination?

Clayton King

Best I can tell, NewSpring’s official teaching pastor has been silent on the controversy. Does he agree with his NewSpring boss? Dare he say anything if he doesn’t? King’s main vocation is as an itinerant preacher to small and mid-sized Baptist churches, many of which also send their young children and teens to his summer camps. Will parents balk at trusting their children’s spiritual growth to a leader who is so closely affiliated with Noble and NewSpring?


A denominational leader like Kelly, who is willing to defend biblical authority at the cost of losing the denomination’s largest church, is an admirable example of integrity and leadership.

Someone should offer him a book deal.

80 thoughts on “Baptists’ message to NewSpring: You’re not one of us

  1. LInn Jan 17, 2015 10:09 pm

    Kudos to the SBC for finally severing their ties with NewSpring. At some point, I believe that NewSpring will implode, although it sometimes takes a while for false teachers to burn themselves out. However, I pray that Noble is out much sooner than later.

    • Chris Jan 23, 2015 9:45 am

      This article is like most of the ones I have read on pajama blog it is full of lies an innuendo. One Perry Nobles has apoligised publicly for saying there was not a Hebrew word for Command. He has said he will commit himself to more study.
      The President of the SCBC making a statement is not the same as the convention making a statement! It is not the same as the Executive board issuing a statement.They both can issue statement but that does not mean its the SCBC stance. The convention would have to vote on that. The president I think over stepped his boundary when he brought music into his statement.The author lied when he said Kelly said they were using Anti Christian music he never used those words.(is any secular music anti Christian)better think on that long and hard!The blog is full of lies and presumptions. Pajama should be ashamed of themselves all you are doing is causing strife among the brethren. I have read this blog for a month now and it has never had one positive thing to say and it is obssesed with Perry Nobles and New Spring! Repent Pajama

      • scar47 Jan 24, 2015 9:13 am

        Calling someone a liar is a serious charge. Could you please tell us where Dr. Duncan has lied. I would especially be interested in hearing what were lies in Holy Rage at the Spring. This shouldn’t a difficult task since you wrote “This article is like most of the ones I have read on pajama blog it is full of lies…”

  2. Savedbygrace Jan 17, 2015 10:48 pm

    And sometimes, despite the false teachings, they continue to grow…take the largest “church” in America,
    for example. Still, good move for SBC!

  3. Rod Jan 17, 2015 10:54 pm

    Noble will likely announce NewSpring is leaving the Convention in the name of evangelism. Religious people don’t care about reaching people for Jesus, after all. Yes, we’re more concerned about carpet color and homecoming dinners. He’ll be lauded by the average NewSpringer, patted on the back by his friends for “taking a hit for Jesus.” NewSpring will continue down the path of heterdoxy bordering on heresy, although NewSpring’s methods and ideas already reveal a deep link to Pelagianism. This should, however, all serve as a pretense for the questioning NewSpringer to explore the faith outside of NewSpring and find themselves renewed in their faith in a faithful and doctrinally sound church–a path many NewSpringers have already taken.

    Pray for Perry Noble.

  4. Lane Jan 18, 2015 1:29 am

    What’s ironic is that the days of the SBC in it’s current form are numbered. The data doesn’t lie, and traditional SBC churches all over the nation are withering. NewSpring may eventually dissolve one day, but it will not be to the benefit of “old time religion.” There was a time in the 1970’s when churches that added a guitar to their service and sang modern choruses were heretical. Preachers would have never considered telling a joke from the pulpit, or sharing a personal anecdote. If a preacher from the 1930’s were dropped into a typical SBC church today, I’m sure he would think the Devil himself was in charge of the worship service. Perry Noble may not be perfect, but he does understand that the bride of Christ looks different today than she did 50 years ago, and she will will look even more different 50 years from now. That is what I think bothers people who dislike NewSpring the most. They recognize that “their” church is being replaced by something that they don’t like. Since they don’t like it, everything about it must be wrong. Nothing Perry Noble (or any other pastor that represents the modern church) says will ever be good enough to these folks. Every statement is analyzed to determine its value as ammunition. Legalism and self-righteousness have replaced common sense and love, and they don’t even realize what they have become. They claim that they are worried that the NewSprings of the world are leading the lost straight to hell, but bringing down NewSpring overshadows their own witness. God will judge everyone who claims to work on his behalf, and I’m afraid that the judgement from God they are wishing for Perry Noble may actually be just as harsh for some of his critics.

    • David Rhee Jan 18, 2015 8:02 pm

      Actually, I have found that churches that stick to what is clearly taught in the Bible (you know Sola Scriptura and your description of “old time religion”) have survived and thrived in the ever dynamic world we live in..

      This is the same argument that liberal, post-modern “religious leaders” that we called the emergent church has done.. Look how well they have done? Notice how poorly they fail to grow… We do not need to change the content or style of what Bible does show.. Does my church have guitar and a praise team? Yes but guess what.. The praise team leads in singing hymns as much as teach the orthodoxy of what Christ has clearly taught..

      Lastly, Perry Noble would be more self-righteous and legalistic than the critics.. For one, who is talking God that what you wrote is not true and everyone got it all wrong except him? Honestly, the authority that most critics are stating and pointing to is clearly the Bible.. Before you start to talk about what the critics are stating, you should check the arguments they are making and on what basis they make the ground? What is your basis of the Truth? It will show that many critics are Biblically sound in their critiques and many things that PN has done is not… That should be telling

      • Scott Ridley Jan 23, 2015 10:13 am

        How can you state that it has thrived? When the “mega-church” membership that most of you so despise is removed from the figures, traditional church visitation and membership has been on a two plus decade decline despite increasing populations.

        typical southern baptists, the only right way is our way. I’m not a “newspringer”… although I have been and I do find that he teaches very sound scripture when I’ve been. No they don’t sing hymns, but somehow I think that’ll be ok when Jesus calls me home. But the services are enjoyable, he’s a passionate man for sure and frankly reading most of you all’s comments I’d side with him in a who’s right and who’s wrong argument.

        • Robbie Jan 23, 2015 11:10 pm

          If there is a decline in the number of people attending Churches teaching sound doctrine and remembering our God is Holy, it’s because man grows increasingly evil, selfish, proud, etc. People do not want to hear the truth, much less try and live like Jesus. Man prefers to be entertained rather than hear there are things we need to repent of and turn away from. The numbers in the mega churches mean nothing if the truth is not being taught and people are not being held accountable, yes I said accountable. Our Jesus is a loving and forgiving Lord, but his Grace cannot be perverted. Our world may be ever changing, but God does not change. We need to hold on to God’s word just as it is. He tells us to be separate from the world and that is clear to understand. We do to need to pray for those that are still spiritually blind.

  5. Stephen Jan 18, 2015 2:59 am

    Lane just dropped the Pharisee card.

  6. JT Jan 18, 2015 7:34 am

    Here are two unrelated comments–

    First, this statement is from The president of the South Carolina Baptist Convention, not the Southern Baptist Convention, as so many commenters are saying.

    Second, Duncan wrote that Noble is a heretic. I believe this is the first public occurrence of this accusation by Duncan.

    • James Duncan Jan 18, 2015 8:33 am

      Nice try, JT, but there’s nothing new from me here. I said he stubbornly clings to heresy, which is what I’ve been saying for the last two weeks. If you think that makes him a heretic, though, there’s probably not much I can do to change your mind.

      What is new is that Noble’s own denomination is treating him as a heretic, even if they didn’t use that word in their statement.

      • JT Jan 18, 2015 12:06 pm

        So your repeated insistence that he is “stubbornly clinging to heresy” doesn’t mean you think he is a heretic?

        You bristle when others parse your words, but then you often assume the worst in interpreting others’ motives. For example, see the quote below where you assumed that because Noble didn’t repeat every detail from a prior apology, that he was therefore retracting part of it.

        “Noble’s statement from the 8:30 a.m. service is noticeably less forceful than their earlier statement that he had never used the N-word. Perhaps because he realized there are too many witnesses to his conversations to sustain an outright denial, Noble seems to concede that he has used that word in private (note the emphasis on not wanting to say it on stage) and that it had accidentally slipped out as he prepared to tell the punchline to the conversation he was having with his friend. My guess is that Noble uses the term affectionately so doesn’t see how using it would make him racist. (I’m not excusing that type of use, just saying that’s probably how Noble sees it.)”

        Your interpretation of his words was entirely graceless and manipulative. He never conceded that he uses that word in private. He never said he used it as an affectionate term. You made the claim that Noble uses the N word in private conversation as a term of affection and that there are multiple witnesses to this fact, based on nothing more than your “guess.” This is just one example of the many times you have assumed bad faith on the part of the subjects you write about.

        There is a need for accountability for Perry Noble and for NewSpring Church. It is huge and hugely influential. Like any church, there are problems there. Due to its size and growth, I imagine there are more problems at NewSpring than most other churches. And over the years you have raised some valid criticisms. But rarely have you displayed grace.

        Duncan, which do you prefer: For Perry Noble to publicly fall and for NewSpring to collapse (like Mars Hill), or for Perry Noble to grow in his faith in Christ and become a more mature and effective preacher? If the latter, then please consider that your prayers and encouragement might be more effective than your criticism.

        I am not asking you to go away. I am asking you to change your approach. Throckmorton shared information and raised valid questions. You do that here, but with less grace, more innuendo, and oft-misleading framing of the story.

        NewSpring needs discernment bloggers. I fear you are not the one they need.

        • James Duncan Jan 18, 2015 2:34 pm

          JT, I don’t mind you parsing my words, but I was pointing out that what you were claiming as some ground-breaking statement from me was nothing new. Perry Noble teaches heresy. That was said long ago and isn’t a terribly controversial claim. Whether he does it enough to warrant labeling him as a heretic is not an argument that I’ve made, though you and other readers are free to make up your own minds.

          As for the N-word argument that you quote above, it was simply my reasoned opinion, and, as you point out, I prefaced it with a disclaimer that this was just a guess. Readers should therefore take what follows with less authority than if I’d said that my argument was based on eyewitness accounts. You found the argument weak, others found it plausible. That’s how persuasion is supposed to work. I think I’ve given Noble a fair hearing on the N-word, stating that I assume that he used it in an affectionate rather than derogatory sense, and I have not focused on it except to address it a couple of paragraphs. Did you see all the NSers on these boards who, after the pulpit apology, assumed that PN did actually say it so started arguing that it was a good word to use? The point is that even the people who think the world of PN think it’s likely that he really does use the word.

          You say that I just want him to fail. Did you read my letter to NS before this all blew up? I told him that I didn’t want to see him fail, and I suggested an argument whereby he could take every advantage of the benefit of the doubt that we were willing to give him. Since then, he has repeatedly removed all doubt, yet you still want us to maintain it. At a certain point, you have to take his repeated assertions that he truly believes his error at face value.

          I do agree with you that NS could use more discernment bloggers.

  7. Brandon Smith Jan 18, 2015 8:23 am

    Excommunication from the SBC would be a badge of honor in the New Spring world. The culture of New Spring was birthed as a direct result of everything Kelly wrote publically in the Courier. Kelly’s admonishment for sacred music specifically sounds like what many pastors that modernize hear from fundamentalist Bob Jones University when they disassociate from their alma mater. It was said for years that BJU literally had a black book filled with names of those it had disassociated it self from. By aligning with the SBC, one would be joining in American Fumdamentslism, not necessarily orthodox Christianity. There is no specific Biblical mandate to filter language from sermons. Indeed, if there were, Martin Luther is definitely a heritic because he was uncharacteridtically coarse. Likewise, I challenge anyone to produce a Biblical mandate for not playing secular music. What is in there is a church that met in homes and sometimes collectively in synagogues. It simply is normal for students of scripture to separate large gatherings of people from what fundamentalists and traditionalist call the church. In historical Christianity, the church is a facility and a meeting on Sunday that is reverent. That just isn’t the case at places like New Spring. Calling Perry Noble a heretic puts him in good company with every reformer that has ever lived. In fact, if I were Perry, that would be my next sermon series entitled Heretic. Then I’d write a book with the same title. The subtitle would be “Why the Church in America uses Social Media to burn people at the stakes.” After having said this, I have always hoped that Perry would calm down a bit and not be so coarse. I never expected him to start sounding heretical when it came to hermeneutics. That ten promises thing really illustrated why he should get Logos 6 and go and take a course in hermeneutics.

    • James Duncan Jan 18, 2015 8:45 am

      NewSpringers’ evolving defense of Noble on PP:

      Two weeks ago: Noble didn’t say the N-word.
      Now: There’s nothing wrong with the N-word if you say it right.

      Two weeks ago: Noble isn’t a heretic.
      Now: There’s nothing wrong with being a heretic if you do it right.

    • Not confused Jan 24, 2015 10:56 am

      If NS is disconnected from the SBC does that save them money?

  8. Jeremy Choate Jan 18, 2015 1:07 pm

    Remember that ad campaign that 7-Up did, many years ago, touting itself as the “Un-cola?”

    I have come to believe that Perry Noble is far more interested in being the “Un-pastor” than anything else. His constant references to “religious people” (specifically his perpetual desire to “piss them off”) does little to delegitimize this belief.

    I understand why he’s doing it, because I used to be just like him. I actually used the words, “I’m on a crusade to stamp out traditionalism in the church!”

    After some serious spanking by the leadership that God had placed over me and some simple growing up, I have come to embrace the truth that A.W. Tozer spoke of when he answered the charge that pastors like Noble, Driscoll, Furtick, et. al are “winning souls”:

    “Winning them to what? To true discipleship? To cross-carrying? To self-denial? To separation from the world? To crucifixion of the flesh? To holy living? To nobility of character? To a despising of the world’s treasures? To hard self-discipline? To love for God? To total committal to Christ? Of course the answer to all these questions is no.”

    As Voddie Baucham once said, pastors like Noble are so concerned about the wedding that they completely ignore the marriage.

  9. Jim Wood Jan 18, 2015 1:15 pm

    To Brandon Smith: “There is no specific Biblical mandate to filter language from sermons” ” Likewise, I challenge anyone to produce a Biblical mandate for not playing secular music.” Brandon, if you really believe these writings (which you wrote), you belong to a place like New Spring. Those two statements show how little you know or understand the Bible. Get into your Bible and read it. I’m not going to guide you down a primrose path and show you all the places in the Bible where it very clearly shows that you’re wrong, I’m going to demand that you do your own homework and find all the places yourself. That’s the only way you’re going to learn. By the way, use a real Bible, not “the Message”.

    • Robbie Jan 23, 2015 11:26 pm

      Jim Wood: If the Holy Spirit lives within us, our language should be filtered while preaching a sermon or talking to someone on the street. Really? A challenge to find things in the Bible to support some of the things going on at NS. The story of Jesus in the temple clearly shows things can be brought into God’s house that are not pleasing to him. I’m concerned as to which Bible you claim to understand. God help us all.

      • Jim Wood Jan 24, 2015 9:16 am

        Robbie, what in the world are you babbling about? Go back and read what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote. Also, go and read what Brandon wrote and then come back and apologize to me. I’ll wait.

  10. Savedbygrace Jan 18, 2015 5:01 pm

    Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. Ephesians 4:29

    Would cussing not be a form of “corrupting talk”? I get that PN is trying to “break the mold” of religion. The problem is, that desire seems to be more important than remaining biblical.

  11. Jim Fletcher Jan 19, 2015 11:10 am

    One wonders what the top SBC leadership thinks of Noble, but there is evidence they think highly of him. Current SBC President Ronnie Floyd has written that Perry Noble’s Leadership Podcast is one he listens to, and Noble is the prototype young pastor for this older generation of leaders. Their continued propping-up of bizarre teaching from Noble (and Furtick, etc.) is deeply disturbing.

    Yet they are also not accountable. Kudos to South Carolina leadership for bucking that trend.

    I am quite certain that the top SBC leadership is alarmed by the loss of what I’ll call market-share; I believe the SBC has lost several hundred thousand members in the last decade, and that will get worse. They are now, ironically, on the downward spiral the mainline churches have been experiencing for decades.

    In any event, SBC leaders choose to remain silent rather than be accountable (see Stetzer, Ed and the current Alex Malarkey mess), and that is lamentable, given their constant reference to “leadership.” Stonewalling is not leadership.

  12. Saywhat Jan 19, 2015 11:29 am

    This blog nor the SBC does not follow the process that Jesus outlined in Matthew 18..if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, BETWEEN YOU and HIM ALONE. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.. Not start a blog, write a publication, go on the news ect…

    • Mike Jan 19, 2015 12:44 pm

      Perhaps you should have used all caps for “against you” instead. The offense was not against JD or the SBC. The offense was against Scripture.

    • Jeff P Jan 19, 2015 1:05 pm

      Saywhat…..how do you now this? Dr. Duncan has stated elsewhere he reached out to Noble privately, and I have no doubt Tommy Kelly did as well. What then? It’s a public matter. When behind the scenes efforts fail, it must be handled publically, just as the guidelines you stated in Matthew 18 state

  13. Saywhat Jan 19, 2015 1:32 pm

    It’s only speculation unless there is documented proof. An attempt to reach out is not sufficient. I did read where Noble did apologize & correct his error. So why all the publicity again? Shouldn’t it be left alone?

    • SDG Jan 19, 2015 3:13 pm

      Noble didn’t apologize and correct his error. He apologized for saying there was no word for “Command” in Hebrew, but he stood by his statements that the “10 Commandments” should still not be called “commandments”. Even though in the context of the passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy the word for “command” is used to describe them. Jesus calls them “commands”. Paul calls them “commands”. Noble’s sticking to his guns here is out of the bounds of orthodoxy. Putting Noble in the same class as the Reformers because he uses foul language is, frankly, asinine. Noble uses foul language just in the course of his speech for effect. It’s just a senseless usage of bad language. Not to defend or excuse Luther, but when he used strong language it was because such language had the needed effect. But just using coarse language is not good. And, if you’re going to lump Noble in with the reformers, maybe you could also request that he actually get seminary training instead of dropping out because it’s irrelevant to his thoughts on ministry.

      Regarding Matthew 18, Dr. Duncan has (as he’s stated before) had more face time with Noble than 95% of his congregation could ever expect to have. Also, you don’t know about what was or was not said in private between Noble and the SCBC leaders. All of Noble’s sermons are out there in public and he defends all of his problematic statements. Matthew 18 is in the context of congregational discipline (has Newspring ever done Biblical discipline in their congregation?). As the pastor of the largest church in the SBC, Noble is held to a higher standard. Clearly, none of his church leadership would ever dare to start any type of church discipline. There is also Biblical mandate for how public issues were handled (such as Paul publicly rebuking Peter, for example). Leaders are held to a higher standard and when leadership is not acting Biblically, others must speak out to warn people of the problems. The issues that were brought up by the SCBC are ones that are vitally important and, thankfully, are being addressed. For years, just this blog alone has been following Matthew 18. Dr. Duncan has tried reaching out directly to Noble and Newspring (v. 16). He’s had meetings with a small number (v. 17) of people representing Newspring. And he’s been forced to go to the rest of the church about this.

  14. Saywhat Jan 19, 2015 3:25 pm

    That’s your interpretation of his apology.& vice versa . Now to your statement on facetime etc.. Matthew 18 says 1, then 2/3 then the process continues until it’s brought before the entire church. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see that process being followed. If we want to make a big deal about teaching the commandments, we should follow not only the 10, but every word that comes from the mouth of God.

    • SDG Jan 19, 2015 3:27 pm

      Can you tell me with a straight face that you think Noble/Newspring would ever allow Dr. Duncan to come up on stage on a Sunday morning to bring this to the table?

  15. Saywhat Jan 19, 2015 3:58 pm

    I’m sorry, but I can not speak for them. Only myself. However I can see that there is strict accountability in that church.

    • Jeff P Jan 20, 2015 12:17 am

      Saywhat…strict accountability? What is the evidence you base this statement on? Everyone of his leadership gave their approval to a message that asserted the word command does not appear in the Hebrew language.

      • Linguist Jan 21, 2015 3:06 pm

        Noble is right. “Command” and “commandment” do not mean the same thing in Hebrew. “Directive” is the closest to what “command” means in Hebrew. It is a guideline and positive suggestion for action, not an order. Note that there are always going to be discrepancies between languages and they do not translate perfectly.

    • David Rhee Jan 20, 2015 9:25 am

      Accountability? Like starting a rock band concert to start a service?

      You need to define accountability because if you are use it in a worldly term… Maybe you could get by.. But in a Biblically term, no… By far no..

    • scar47 Jan 20, 2015 12:05 pm

      “Accountability” Surely, you’re kidding. Did you read Holy Rage at the Spring? The only accountability at NS seems to be that you say “Yes” to everything that comes down from the mountain.

  16. Charles Jan 19, 2015 9:18 pm

    Reading the free eBook Still Not Professionals: Ten Please for Today’s Pastors, by John Piper and others last night.

    I don’t know if the chapter by Daniel Akin (president of Southeastern Baptist Sem in Wake Forest NC) was written with Noble in mind–it was written several years ago. But it sure seems to fit this sad situation. Anyone tempted to publicly defend Noble here or redirect the discussion away from should take an hour to download and prayerfully read this little book.

    http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/still-not-professionals-free-ebook

    • Charles Jan 20, 2015 11:57 pm

      “Anyone tempted to publicly defend Noble here or redirect the discussion away from…”

      My apologies for not proof-reading this post better. I meant to continue:

      “Anyone tempted to publicly defend Noble here or redirect the discussion away from the original topic, a discussion of biblical truths pertaining holding public teachers of the Scriptures in Christ’s church accountable for their message and conduct to a personal war of “I’m going to defend ‘my’ church and ‘my man Pete,'” would do well to first take to download and prayerfully read this little book.”

  17. Matt Jan 20, 2015 9:11 am

    Romans 2:1-29 ESV

    Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. …

    Just saying.

    I <3 my church!!

    • Marcus Jan 20, 2015 10:35 am

      We have dealt with this argument about not judging many times on this blog. It would be instructive to go read them. We are called to not judge non-believers for they know not what they do. We are called to judge those within the church to make sure that Scripture based teaching and serving is being done.

      From my own quiet time this morning: Proverbs 31:9 “Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.”

      1 Cor 6:1-6 “If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!”

      We are indeed called to judge righteously according to Scripture, not in anger or hatred but rebuking falsehoods.

      The majority on this site are not seeking NS’ failure or destruction. Our concerns run so deep because many of our friends and loved ones attend NS and are being taught false things by PN and some of his staff. Our desire is for Scriptural truth to prevail.

      We do not hate NewSpring. We do not hate Perry Noble. We do not hate those who attend that church.

      We have grave concerns about PN’s lack of exegetical homework, profanity emanating from the pulpit, his unfounded attacks on other churches in the body of Christ, and the disturbing tendency of a significant portion of the “ownership” to spew poison in defense of Perry and NewSpring. That is not how disputes are to be settled within the body.

      Case in point: This past Friday I attended a high school basketball game. A mother and father of one the players currently attend NS. I have known them for years. Before they attended NS, they went to my church. They have always been kind, gentle, open, caring, sweet people. Until I re-posted the original article on this blog analyzing the 10 Commandments sermon (where they leaped to his defense, chastising me for daring post such a hateful thing. I didn’t respond). When I walked by them, and attempted to greet them, having not seen them in some time, I got glares and ice in return. In an instant, I knew why.

      We desire discourse, not discord. Especially not between believers, family, and friends.

    • SDG Jan 20, 2015 10:48 am

      So, Matt…. Why are you judging “us”? You’re doing the same thing that you would ask us not to do (of course by your quite improper handling of Romans 2).

      In Romans 1, Paul was accusing (judging, even!!) the Gentiles of all types of sins as well as their disbelief when God has made Himself known. Anticipating that Jewish readers would be thinking of how great they are that they didn’t do those things. Oh, but they bring the judgment on themselves because they not only broke a law they didn’t know but they broke the Law that they did know!

      Paul even spoke in 1 Cor 5 about passing judgment on someone himself.

      Saywhat was quick to bring up the Matthew 18 argument. Could you bring that argument up? If so, then you would have to concede that the Bible does tell us to render judgment on fellow believers in the hopes to bring them into orthodoxy and out of sin. If we can’t “judge others” as you argue, then we could never approach someone and tell them they are in sin and that they should stop it before they’re brought under rebuke by the Church.

      • Matt Jan 20, 2015 9:55 pm

        I’m not judging anyone, and if I am improperly referencing Romans 2 then I apologize. But it is my understanding and my belief that when God’s word says “every one of you” then it literally means every one of us. We CAN turn nonbelievers from their sin without judging them! You can show someone that lying is a sin and turn them to Christ without judging and condemning them. Yes, there will be a day when we will judge the angels and yes we are suppose to pass righteous judgement, but not hypocritical judgement!

        That being said, all I was trying to do was simply state that I don’t understand why this is being blown so far out of proportion! Yes, I go to NewSpring. Yes, I am upset that my pastor and my church is being attacked, and yes, I will do my best to defend them both just like I would expect any one of you to do the same if the problems/discrepancies/miscommunications of your church were thrust into the limelight and criticized upon by “holier than thou” individuals (I am not trying to offend but if you are offended by reading this then I am probably talking about you).

        We are all human. We all make mistakes…even pastors, and show me a church that has no problems and I will show you a building full of people living in denial! This whole situation can be summed up in Christ’s illustration of the man who was too concerned with the speck in his brother’s eye to realize the plank in his own(This would be the hypocritical judgement I was talking about earlier). Speaking of Jesus…wasn’t it He who said “let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”? So cast away!

  18. Kevin Jan 20, 2015 3:00 pm

    “The world would be a good place if sinners repented of sin. The world would be an AMAZING place if religious people repented of religion! (Jan 14)”

    “Get that? Religious people are more harmful to the world than sinners.”

    Excuse me, but I believe Christ taught that message, also.

    • Humblylearning Jan 20, 2015 7:30 pm

      If I may respectfully offer you a possibly more accurate understanding Kevin, it seems Christ wasn’t stating that being religious was bad, but that it was being hypocritical whilst proclaiming to be religious that was the problem. If you have the time, re-read Matthew 23 and see if that understanding makes sense with everything Jesus states.

      • Kevin Jan 20, 2015 7:46 pm

        I understand your point. I’m not a Twitter person (or any social media) but my understanding is that it doesn’t lend itself to nuanced thought. With that in mind, when I read that “tweet” (ugh) I inferred in it that he was referring to people that think of themselves as and puff themselves up as “religious”. In that regard, again, I agree with him.

        • Humblylearning Jan 20, 2015 8:13 pm

          Ah, I see. Your point was certainly proven about twitter, given that this one small sampling of thought led us to two completely different understandings of it’s meaning. From my perspective, I had taken Mr. Noble’s statement as denigrating being religious in general, but I can also see now how perhaps he may have meant what you and I appear to be in agreement on as what Christ rebuked the Pharisees for in Matthew 23. In that case, I would concur with what Mr. Noble stated. 🙂

          • Kevin Jan 20, 2015 8:27 pm

            I am not in or around Columbia so I really do not know anything about the pastor, the church, or the disagreement. My daughter in Columbia sent me the article.
            It’s a shame to see any of this going on. I hope it gets resolved Scripturaly. (Is “Scripturaly” spelled correctly?, My spell check doesn’t like my spelling and isn’t offering suggestions. Interesting.)

  19. Richard Jan 20, 2015 10:17 pm

    Dont be haters cause Newspring is attracting your “members” away from your boring church

  20. Timmy Jan 20, 2015 10:19 pm

    You all make me sick. You righteous self absorbed ” I know the Bible better than you ” are proving why people don ‘t worship in buildings anymore. You attack and judge and do it in the name of Jesus. I guess perry and all of New Spring are going to hell. You also say Ron Carpenter and all of us at Refemption are going to hell. Stay in your SB churches and watch other Christians instead of taking care of your own churches. I guess playing drums in a service will send me to hell. Make sure you come and sit by me next Sunday so you can translate when’s brothers speak in tongues. Will I go to hell if I bring my Message version of this Bible. God is crying watching you do this

    • James Duncan Jan 20, 2015 10:36 pm

      FYI, this is the first and last message from Timmy, so the rest of you don’t need to worry about engaging him. I let this one through moderation to give you a taste of some of the invective that has been coming in, much of which I delete as unhelpful.

  21. Raul Peña Jan 21, 2015 2:25 am

    Noble, Furtick, Jakes, Driscoll – all Elephant Room BFFs.
    Unfortunately, Noble will probably tout his expulsion from the SCBC as a badge of honor.

  22. Nicole Jan 21, 2015 8:41 am

    Let me ask all of you a question. Is God not in control? Last I checked, the Bible says only God can judge the heart, yet here you are all condemning a man and his heart. Hypothetically, let’s say he is a heroic, God will judge him for that one day but until then, God is in control and can and will continue to use this man. Many broken people have attended his church and heard about God that would have never heard of him otherwise. Isn’t that something to celebrate? I don’t understand how people who claim to love God can show so much hate for his creation. If you’re so concerned for the situation that you can take it to a public forum and openly bash a man, take it to God. He can do so much more good than anybody.

    • Kevin Jan 21, 2015 9:02 am

      Nicole, are you suggesting that if someone claims they are teaching Biblicaly then we should just blindly accept it? We are to not blindly follow nor not critique teaching that claims to be Biblical but isn’t. And I am not commenting on the particulars of the article. I do not know them. Rather, the principle being offered by some that we are not supposed to be critical of anyone’s teaching as long as they claim to be Christian.

      • Nicole Jan 21, 2015 9:22 am

        No, I do believe that if there is an issue it should be brought to him, as it was. No where in the bible does it say to mock, ridicule or stone a person in doing so. They brought their accusations to them, he replied, they are intitled to take whatever actions they see necessary, but they (or maybe just members of their church?) are casing stones when they are not guiltless. From a personal perspective, I have been attending Newspring for a year and a half now. I grew up in a baptist church from the time I was four and have gone to private schools my whole life, I don’t have a degree in Bible or anything but with all that being said, I’ve never heard anything docturnaley
        unsound come from that pulpit. I have grown in my relationship with Christ in ways that I never had before up to that point and am proud to be part of a movement that cares more about heart and souls than pleasing a group of people.

        • SDG Jan 21, 2015 9:43 am

          I sure am glad Augustine didn’t just sit back and say “Oh well, Pelagius is seeing a lot of people with changed lives and ‘conversions’ so I’ll just say something once and if he doesn’t change let God deal with him.” The same with Arius. And Luther and Calvin should have just let Rome continue in her practices by giving them a single rebuke and then going silent?

          This is not about hatred for God’s creation, as you accuse use of doing. It’s about the love of God’s holy and inspired word. When someone, especially someone as popular as Noble, says something that is not Biblically correct then that should be proclaimed.

          Nicole, you said “I’ve never heard anything docturnaley [sic] unsound come from that pulpit.” He said the 10 Commandments are not Commandments. This is absolutely doctrinally unsound!

          Jesus called them Commandments. (Mark 10:19)
          Paul called them Commandments. (Ephesians 6:2)
          Moses called them Commandments. (Exodus 20:6, Exodus 34:28, Deut. 4:13)
          The book of Judges (Judges 3:4), etc….

          Perry Noble said “from that pulpit” that they’re NOT Commandments. That is not Biblical teaching. If you still think that what he said from the pulpit was doctrinally sound, then that is on your conscience. But it’s not Biblical. He says that he knows better than not just the humans who wrote down the text of Scripture but also that he knows better than the Holy Spirit who inspired them to write and say that they’re commandments.

          • Nicole Jan 21, 2015 9:53 am

            SDG, if you want somebody to bicker with, you’ve come to the wrong person. By all means though, take a page from Pelagius, Calvin, and Luther’s book, confront my errors, put me in my place since you seem to think that’s your job. Thanks for the reminder of why I left church for eight years though. One day Perry will have to answer to God for everything he has said, just like you and me. As for now, he is doing a good thing, souls are being saved, and I for one would like to see the kingdom of Heaven continue to grow. God is in control. Nothing happens without first passing through his hands. There is a time and place for everything, including stepping off of once soapbox.

        • Kevin Jan 21, 2015 12:22 pm

          Nicole, your post is well taken. If you feel you know the Bible and you haven’t heard anything un-scriptural being taught, then that is good. Perhaps you should address to the SBC a specific response to their concerns.

          Concerning the teaching about the 10 Commandments, can anyone provide a text of what was taught? It would interest me greatly the context, etc., with-in which that was said. Just like the comment about sinners and religious people…I didn’t have a problem with what was said. Given the limitations of twitter posting that comment was not unreasonable.

  23. Jennifer Jan 21, 2015 4:37 pm

    This whole thing literally has me upside down. I went to NS for over a year. No, it wasn’t my family’s cup of tea. I didn’t like it at all but I do understand that not everyone is like me. What I did see in the time that we attended was both positive and negative. I guess you will have that in all churches. What bothered me the most was lack of feeling the Spirit. Not once did I ever disagree with what Perry taught. He seemed to be very doctrinal correct. What I did have a problem with was his attitude in many of his sermons. He made fun of the traditional churches and at times made stabs at the very people in his church. He was no different in attacking than the people who attacked him. I feel he has breed an attitude of (NS owners) of them feeling like this is an okay way of thinking. Basically screw all of ya’ll who don’t agree with me. We have been back to NS several times after we initially left esp when there was a sermon we wanted to hear. We also listened to the New Years Eve sermon which really upset me. I don’t see how anybody could defend that one. I believe that sermon was taught in error. They are not promises, they are instructions. If you obey them then you will be blessed. If you disobey then there are serious consequences. I mean really. I believe Perry rushed into that one and I find it very disturbing that everyone rushes to his defense so blindly. I’m no hater and especially to NS. I have many dear friends that go there. If my pastor had preached this sermon I would definitely question him. This is not being judgemental and definitely does not label you as a hater. I find it also disturbing that he really didn’t apologize when called out and said he didn’t say the n word. I don’t care what context he meant it in and it doesn’t really mean a hill of beans. All that matters is that he said it. He brushed it off as a jumbled word and he didn’t say that. If you heard it that way then I’m sorry. Yes Perry, you said it. I heard it. You may not have meant to say it but you you used it correctly in your slang statement you made trying to be cool. I believe many pastors make mistakes and say things they shouldn’t. It’s how you act afterwards. I’m not a judge but what has come across from Perry himself is Sorry you heard it that way but I didn’t say what you thought I said. And his whole apology on the 10 promises/commandments was not an apology because he still believes them as promises. I think he was sorry that all this got messed up. I don’t think Perry is a bad person. We all have our faults but I do think he needs to take his Pastoral role more serious. I would never want to be in this position. If he doesn’t and can’t take criticism then he needs to not be doing what he’s doing. Personally, this is my own belief but I don’t think Perry really cares that he might be outed by the SCBC. As far as accountability goes. I’m sure there are a few small groups out there that may hold themselves accountable but on the large scale…..There’s not any. I see small groups who get together and post their drinking and partying on social media all the time. God called us to be different from the world and not to look just like it. And yes, this goes for small traditional churches as well. I’ve seen both but more on NS side considering their large size. I also believe that you take away God’s holiness when you allow secular esp. Demoralizing lyrics into a church just for the wow factor. It’s only the Word of God that convicts and brings one to repentance. Your putting your trust in your own ability to win others to Christ. I don’t think you should sacrifice holiness for your own great idea. Yes, Jesus can do anything. He can, turn ashes into beauty. He can use bad circumstances and turn them into good. I’m not doubting that many are saved there but what about their spiritual growth and what about being holy? Salvation needs to be worked out. Dieing to this world and our selfish desires. I see so many Christians in NS and traditional churches just living life. We, individually are the body of Christ. Not just one church..This whole I love my church bothers me really bad. If you do, then you love your other brothers and sisters in Christ even in different churches who may disagree with certain sermon or attitude. You certainly don’t get all puffed up, start defending and being offended. By the way the church is what goes into apostasy in the end days. Better be willing to challenge any man or pastor at any given time. It’s not all about grace either. That goes hand in hand with a just and righteous God. He will not be mocked!

  24. ohmy Jan 21, 2015 7:49 pm

    I am not a PN fan at all. I have always felt something was not right. But, I don’t like to judge other churches harshly because they do things different. I have prayed and asked God to either bless NS or block it if NS and PN are not of Him. I think we all need to be careful. However, one gets the feeling that PN does controversial sermons on purpose. I think he likes the attention. My main problem with PN is he seems to want to direct the attention to himself rather than God. I say we all pray and refrain from casting stones at each other.

  25. sweetness Jan 22, 2015 12:56 am

    I use to go to new spring and i quit and went back to my old church because i didn’t agree on some things Perry said for one a preacher dont cuss or talk about others and if u have to go use the rest room u can’t come back into the service and u not aloud to come to the service unless u are in the 6th grade and up if my child wants to sit with me and learn about the Lord she should be able to they talk about kids spring and they will learn about the Lord in rhere by doing what playing games and a 30 min lesson yea i was a teacher in there to and fuse so i know all about and Perry made a comment that the only time he woukd talk with u or family is at our funeral thats not a REAL preacher sorry

  26. Jeff Jan 22, 2015 1:09 am

    This article includes mis-information. Newspring has not been kicked out of the SBC or SCBC. The statements by Tommy Kelly were simply his opinions. He is an elected officer serving a term and does not have the power to remove anyone.

  27. J Jan 22, 2015 9:05 am

    According to the Courier, he hasn’t been disavowed. All of the ideas that are in the “statements” are encouragements.

    Further, Noble isn’t a Heretic. I’m not a Newspringer and I’m not a huge fan of the ministry, but He’s not denying the person and work of Jesus which is basis for claiming heresy.

    Marcion was a heretic not because he denied the Old Testament, but because he claimed that there were two distinct gods: the ‘evil’ god of the Old Testament: YHWH and the ‘kind’ god of the New Testament: Hippie Jesus.

    The claim of heresy is unfounded.
    Will he stay in the SBC or the SCBC, we don’t know and as long as he’s teaching within the breadth (and there’s a lot of room) of the BFM2k, then he’s in.

  28. JT Jan 22, 2015 7:29 pm

    This is just blowing my mind! I grew up SB, served on state baptist committees, served as associational director on many levels. I never thought I would attend a church like Newspring, but after spending 15+ years in 3 SB churches watching them destroy themselves! First one was lead by a pastor that picked and chose teachers based on his personal affection for certain people. The 2nd blew up due to the accusations of a deacon and youth pastor having a gay affair and the 3rd church I watched a true man of God have a nervous breakdown due to certain core members. That church went on to call a pastor that left due to his wife having a lesbian affair and a potential affair the pastor was having. NOW, why was that not written about in the Courier???? I guess those churches were not reaching others for Christ in large numbers and somewhat of a threat to our smaller churches. I heard a group of pastors having lunch saying, ” We’ve got to do something about this NS.. If not all our churches are going to close and we will be out of a job! REALLY??? After watching traditional churches chew each other up, my husband and started attending NS. The bible is taught clearing and truly, PN is a man that loves God and calls people out on things our traditional pastors are scared to do because the $ members will get mad and run him off. This article makes me sick! We should be rejoicing in the salvations. God’s family is growing, but it sounds like the state Prez. Is not so happy about that. Just wondering if we should put Perry up on the cross Sun. And all you haters relive the crucifixion! Let’s love each other, pray for each other and rejoice when the Great Commission is being carried out. In closing, I bet the Devil is enjoying his vacation since you all are doing his work for him. One more…. If you Don’t like NS don’t go! Perry NEVER is critical of other churches! Just wonder why yall care so much. It will be us “Newspringers” that have to answer on judgement day for our choice, not you!!!!!!!!

    • Rod Jan 22, 2015 9:43 pm

      Wow, some real ignorance in this comment.

      Perry NEVER is critical of other churches!

      You clearly don’t listen to your own pastor.

      • Rod Jan 22, 2015 10:41 pm

        I’ll take ignorance over hatred! Yes, I do listen to my pastor, Thank you!! I have never heard him call out a particular church by name! Yes, he is critical of how baptist churches do church, which is soooo true! We have to many committees, rules and legalistic views in many churches. The way everyone is acting is ridiculous and I’m sure the Lord is sad about His children’s behavior. I may be ignorant, but I can assure you all this negativity is doing far more harm to growing God’s family than Perry’s one sermon! Sometimes ignorance is bliss. One thing I’m not ignorant about is if Newspring were giving millions to the convention, this attack would not be happening!

    • CC Jan 23, 2015 12:16 am

      Hi,
      My question is about Perry’s whole worship structure. It seems to me that there are so many campuses and so many pastors in this organization that no one is on the same page and there is no accountability whatsoever. (New Spring not SB) I am not a SB but, I can’t say I agree with what Perry is doing here in SC. There are some very concerning displays that I would like to get clarification on. My first question is not even about “The Ten Commandments” but rather the praise and worship aspect of New Spring. I am curious how do you Worship God with AC/DC and Garth Brooks? Also there was a “Dime Bag” convention whereas teens were to learn about tithing in relation to drug usage? Do you think that NS and PN are gearing Christians to become stronger in their faith or more comfortable in their sin life? And lastly how do you thing that NS is impacting the local churches in SC? Thanks!

  29. Scott G Jan 22, 2015 11:41 pm

    This mess is exactly what happens when one changes GOD’S word and the ego from each person involved starts adding twist and other situations. We have a convention that should have dealt with this long ago. While Mr. Nobles will answer for his actions as well as leaders from SBC. Can we take the ego out of this and work together in your local church for the CAUSE of CHRIST? Music…..it not about your personal perference. MUSIC IS A means to put us in one mind one accord and to WORSHIP GOD and HIS SON. It’s not about the vocalist musician choir praise team. If it is check your priorities. Now please be careful of your talk and words the lost and wounded are watching. Just saying. This from a person that left the church for 20 years…for these same reasons…back to God and more involved…and it’s worse. I place my faith in God. Not a church preacher convention etc. I think there are so many messages in this but basically get refocused on the CALVARY AND IT’S MIGHTY WORK. PRAY FOR REVIVAL AND HEALING AND LET’S MOVE ON.

  30. CC Jan 23, 2015 10:46 am

    I have read most of the comments and I have to say many of them turn my stomach. I am now a newspringer after spending the first 36 years of my life in a SBC. Do I wholeheartedly agree with everything that Perry says? No – no more than I agreed wholeheartedly with every other preacher I have had. What I will say is this. In the Baptist church I witnessed numerous elders and members say and do things that drove people away (myself included). Maybe it was the way they dressed or something in their past but they were treated poorly. We all have a past and have all done things that separate us from God. At Newspring having a past ( or even present) issue does not exclude you. I believe Perry prayerfully seeks Gods word and delivers it in a way that brings people to Christ. As people grow they can make their own determination as to what God has in store for them. My prayer for people is that they attend a Church where they are fed spiritually. I can say that I read my bible much more now than I ever have and I feel closer to God than ever before and I believe that is because I am inspired to learn and read Gods word by what Newspring has to offer. The one thing God gave us is freedom to choose. That’s why there is a heaven and a hell. If you don’t like Newspring or what is taught that is fine but tearing a man down because you do not agree with his teachings is horrible. Perry Noble – like all preachers he will be held accountable for his flock and I am sure he will be judged appropriately by God. He, nor anyone else should be judged by his fellow man. If the SBC doesn’t want Perry Noble or NS that is fine. I freely left the baptist church and personally have no problem not being associated with with any convention. I am much more concerned about being associated with God.

      • Chris Jan 23, 2015 3:00 pm

        See Rod your response to CC is part of the problem! You wrote one word yet that one word spoke volumes! I guess you are saying that only the SCBC serves the true God….
        I know SCBC serves the ONE True God. but so do many many other people and groups!

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