Hey Jesus lovers, watch your mouth! 23

For a few hopeful seconds, I thought NewSpring was about to reform its approach to profanity when I saw this watch-your-mouth headline from the church’s web pastor.

I thought he was going to recommend against using paint-peeling cuss words in church. Sadly, it was too good to be true.

So what did Pastor Charalambous want us to be careful about?

Don’t say saved. It’s too Christian.

It’s a whole new world, isn’t it?

BAMF = Bless you, Reverend.

Saved = Wash out your mouth!

23 thoughts on “Hey Jesus lovers, watch your mouth!

  1. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 10:41 am

    I’m not going to call you Mr.Duncan and give you that respect because you and your buddies have failed to reciprocate the same courtesy to Perry and that frickin’ BAMF Brad Cooper…

    James…I know this is your blog so I don’t really feel comfortable with blasting you in front of all your little buddies, but since you’ve blasted my friends on here…game on.

    Let me begin by referencing a bit of scripture:

    In Matthew, Jesus is teaching what is called the Sermon on the Mount. In this, He teaches that you aren’t guilty of breaking the law only if you committ the act of adultry…but you are also guilty of breaking the law if you look lustfully upon a woman (that’s a paraphrase of Matthew 5:27-30…hopefully I’m allowed to paraphrase on your blog. I’m confident that you are familiar with that passage so it shouldn’t be a problem). The fact that you are a man tells me that you are guilty of adultery…according to Jesus, of course.

    In some of your previous blog post, you attracted the exaggerated and ironic “Sexed” magazine cover pretty maliciously. You are attacking and accusing “The Spring” of desecrating the house of God…but aren’t you guilty of adultery according to Jesus??? What’s the verse about the plank and the eye??? It’s Matthew 7:3 just incase your Bible isn’t close by. And there’s actually a book in the Bible with the same name as you…James. In James, there is a verse that says (I’ll quote this time), “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.”

    Now when I was a kid, I used to get in all kinds of mischief. However, very rarely did I get into trouble when it was just me. I usually had an accomplice. There were a couple times that my partner in crime would rat me out…even though he was guilty of the same thing I was doing. He would go tell my Mom what I was doing…thinking he was doing something good by pointing out my wrongdoings. You know what my Mom, who was without any guilt said??? She told that little snitching terd to quit taddle-tailing!!! To my Mom it was just as irritating for her to deal with the taddling as it was to deal with the crime. You may call that story a parable…even though it really happened. Take the lesson to heart.

    Switching gears a bit, I’m going to assume that you are reformed in your theology??? So am I…and so are a lot of people on staff at NewSpring (probably the majority). I will be speaking to you as if we are on the same team, however, I’m not so naive to believe that we are.

    You believe in predestination…the fact that God has already set in His mind and knows how this whole world and everything in it is going to play out. So do I. You believe that God is sovereign and nothing is outside of his jurisdiction (for lack of a better word). So do I. He’s in control of everything! So why is it then, that you say this is your theology, but yet you spend so much time worrying about NS and trying to change the course of predestined history??

    Shouldn’t we be trying to pursue sanctification through close communion with God the Father??? And by our life becoming sanctified…people see the work He’s doing in us and become drawn and convicted by that?? If that’s the case, according to your way of thought (reformed) aren’t you wasting a lot of time you could be spending on working oot your own sanctification??? Isn’t arguing this like pissing in the wind anyways if everything was predestined since the beginning of time?? It seems to me that you are contradicting your own theology a bit…

    A Bible scholar like you should be able to learn from lessons in the Bible by now. In the case of NS…God’s name is going to be glorified one way or another. It will either be by what I perceive to be going on now…or it will be by God crushing it into pieces…eventually God’s name is glorified…REFERENCE PHARAOH.

    Man…you are in the same boat that Perry and Brad and myself are in. We’re all broken in the sight of a perfect God. And it’s only by what Jesus has done that we have any hope of anything. We should be spending our time talking about how great, and powerful, and glorious God is…and worshiping Him for that fact alone..rather than spending our time attacking the way someone does or doesn’t do church.

    Get a grip…there’s no telling how many countless hours you’ve spent on this blog. For what??? This will eventually become dust…be a better steward (do I need to site that reference??).

    • James Duncan Apr 15, 2009 11:39 am

      Re. predestination and history. Predestination entails neither fatalism nor ambivalence towards sin.

      Reformed theology is given that label because it coincides with the beliefs of reformers who argued against a corrupt church and did change the course of history.

  2. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 12:05 pm

    This corrupt church that you are referring to was the Roman Catholic Church. And they argued against heresy…the Pope’s authority, selling of indulgences, etc. Argued for true repentance vs. penance as a sacrament.

    This is NOT the same as you speaking against the other Believers.

    Perry nor Brad has ever made the claims that the Pope did in the 15th and 16th centuries. So it is ridiculous for you to think you are doing the same thing as Luther and Calvin.

  3. James Duncan Apr 15, 2009 12:20 pm

    Hmm. I didn’t know that that was what I was saying, but I’m flattered by the comparison.

  4. Tommy F. Apr 15, 2009 2:39 pm

    @NGottlieb: You write: “you spend so much time worrying about NS and trying to change the course of predestined history??”

    This is quite a distortion of Reformed theology. In this instance, I suppose you’d argue that everything PNob & BCoop do is predestined. If so, does this make it defensible? That’s mighty convenient. Can one never speak up – ever? If not, then why are you criticizing JDuncan’s criticism. All you are doing is “trying to change the course of predestined history.”

    According to your own (faulty, twisted) logic, JDuncan is predestined to write this blog and spend his time doing this. Yet, you seem to think this is a waste of time. Sounds like you have a problem with God, rather than JDuncan. After all, he’s merely fulfilling predestined events. He can’t help it. And it’s ironic that your comment is simply a critique of JDuncan’s critique of NS, and yet you don’t want JDuncan to lodge any criticism. What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander – heh?

    You’re teaching fatalism. JDuncan’s concentrating on Christianity. There’s a major difference. Figure it out, and then come back and play some more.

  5. Micah Taylor Apr 15, 2009 3:46 pm

    @ Nolan

    Let me begin by actually quoting one of the scriptures you referenced, It’s Matthew 7:3

    “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but u do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

    See this is a problem that could easily be solved if we all took the time to read the Bible in context. First of all, the log Jesus is talking about is not a multitude of sins that may cause us to stumble. If we had to purge our own lives completely before confronting a brother, then none of us could correct each other, we would all live in sin, and we could all go around throwing obscenities into our teachings. The “log” is a specific sin, pride. Jesus is instructing us to go before our brothers humbled, in understanding that we are both sinners, but in love and desire to see the Body strengthened by the removal of wrong.

    Here, I’ll quote some more:

    “Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when l anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light.”
    -Ephesians 5:8-14

    That sounds like a charge to judge, to call out, to correct. Because that’s what it is. And that’s what Paul, a lustful, adulterous, even murderous, sinner spent much of his life doing. Calling it out.

    Also, it would be appreciated if you would be a little less slanderous to your brothers in Christ. Some of your language is just down right aggressive. We aren’t disrespecting you for not understanding scripture, please don’t bash others for expressing their opinions.

  6. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 3:51 pm

    @Tommy F…There’s a difference between fatalism and trusting in God’s sovereignty. I don’t simply accept things as inevitable and ignore sin. However, I do know that God knew about what Perry and Brad were going to say trillions of years ago. If they are in sin about anything that has been communicated from stage or any other medium then they will be held accountable…BY GOD, NOT YOU!!!

    If God doesn’t want what’s going on at NewSpring to happen…it WON’T. He’ll wipe it off the face of the earth if He pleases.

    I’m not judging James…I’m simply pointing to scripture and using some rational thinking. I’ll let God do the judging.

    I’m not going to get into a battle of wits here…you can read my original post and you know exactly my point. Anyone can speak up…I don’t care. I just think James’ time would be better spent talking about how God is working in his life and talking about what God is currently teaching, and glorifying His name that way, rather than trying to belittle what’s going on at NS. Those men are personal friends of mine. Don’t sit behind a computer screen and discredit some legitimate promptings of the Spirit in these men’s lives. That’s not your job…

    PS-How dare you say I’ve got a problem with God! You know why I don’t get on here more often and get into debates with you guys??…it’s because I’m actually obeying our Lord where He commands us to get out and feed the hungry and care for the poor!! I could be way off here, but I bet you and James blog and respond to posts more than you actually obey what God commands us CLEARLY to do in scripture. You ever sold everything…left your life behind…moved away from your friends and family…rented a house in the ghetto…just so you could be obedient to Matthew 28’s command to share the Gospel and make disciples??? I had someone knocking on my door last night at 3am wanting me to take them home last night…I’m substituting in the city schools today so that I can spend more time with students and have a greater impact on thier lives (I’m doing all this in my free periods)…when’s the last time that happened to you?? I could go on to more specific things that I bet you’re not doing, but you might take offense and think that it’s personal. This is my life…my nets (notice the fishers of men reference) are still in Anderson, SC. Where I might add I was discipled under the ministry of a one Perry Noble and worked along side the friggin’ BCoop. I KNOW THEM!!! They are desperately in love with Jesus and so am I. DON’T SAY SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GOD TO ME TOMMY.

    • James Duncan Apr 15, 2009 4:01 pm

      Nolan, you say “Don’t … discredit some legitimate promptings of the Spirit in these men’s lives.”

      You beg the central question of whether these promptings are legitimate. Are all of them legitimate? If not, where might PN and BC have misread God’s promptings? If they are legitimate, why has God suddenly changed his speech patterns? How can God legitimately prompt speech and behavior that can’t be reconciled to his nature?

  7. James Duncan Apr 15, 2009 4:06 pm

    A couple more questions. Does God always wipe out evil as soon as it appears? He can, but my question is whether he often or very quickly does that.

    If you say yes, please explain the Holocaust. If you say no, how can you so confidently interpret the lack of God’s consuming fire as his endorsement?

    You’re talking some serious theology here.

  8. Micah Taylor Apr 15, 2009 4:19 pm

    Caps imply yelling. You are a rude blogger sir.

  9. Tommy F. Apr 15, 2009 5:01 pm

    @ NGottlieb. You seem a bit angry. Substitute teaching did that to me, too. (Fortunately, God predestined that I not do that forever.)

    You wrote: “You know why I don’t get on here more often and get into debates with you guys??…it’s because I’m actually obeying our Lord where He commands us to get out and feed the hungry and care for the poor!! I could be way off here, but I bet you and James blog and respond to posts more than you actually obey what God commands us CLEARLY to do in scripture. You ever sold everything…left your life behind…moved away from your friends and family…rented a house in the ghetto…just so you could be obedient to Matthew 28’s command to share the Gospel and make disciples??? I had someone knocking on my door last night at 3am wanting me to take them home last night…I’m substituting in the city schools today so that I can spend more time with students and have a greater impact on thier lives (I’m doing all this in my free periods)…when’s the last time that happened to you??”

    I read: Matt 6.1-5:
    Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. “But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, “so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

    I’m impressed by your list. Happy? You’ve just been rewarded… By me, not God.

  10. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 5:19 pm

    @Micah…read my original post brother…The part where I say that were all in the same boat. I understand the context of the Matthew passage. It’s interesting…because we all have planks…all the time in our eyes. haha. The point my friend is that God is the only one able to judge. I’m not judging. I can be sarcastic though…Elijah and Jesus both were documented as sarcastic. And for your second scripture spear you threw…You can hardly say anything that is done at NS is done in secret. Expose all you want…

    I don’t feel that speaking aggressively over a medium where we’re not even face to face is wrong. That’s who I am…pretty aggressive person. I guess that’s what 4 years of college basketball will do for ya…especially if you are an undersized, white kid from a private high school.

    @James Duncan…Don’t be nit-pickety. The lack of God’s instant destruction is not endorsement of anything. I never said it was…I said if God doesn’t want it to happen it won’t. Don’t put words into my mouth…or I guess I should say at the ends of my fingers.haha. God didn’t approve of Israel’s slavery in Egypt…didn’t destroy Egypt instantly, but He did eventually. God didn’t approve of Nazi Germany…didn’t destroy the Third Reich instantly, but He did eventually. He doesn’t approve of all the sin on earth…He hasn’t destroyed it yet, but He will eventually. If He doesn’t approve of NewSpring He’ll stop it…may not instantly, but He will eventually. I don’t think that theology is that serious…it’s just how God has worked throughout history.

    The thing about God’s promptings is that the ONLY one who knows perfectly…IS GOD. Perry may misinterpret, the only one who knows for sure is God. Perry will be the one who is giving an account for what he’s done and said. Nothing goes unnoticed…He can handle it.

    If God is God then He can do the nasty work of convicting Brad and Perry of their sins…again He doesn’t need your help in that matter. As the Spirit dwells in Perry and Brad He will certainly, in time, convict them of that sin (IF, in fact, they are in sin by tweeting BAMF and every other one of your claims).

    Now I apologize in advance if it takes a while to get back on here…I’ll be fixing dinner in the ghetto with my neighbors. I hate you won’t be able to be there with me, but you can read about it in Luke 14:12. It will be kinda like that…except with hamburger helper.

  11. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 5:27 pm

    @Micah…Sorry for the rudeness. They didn’t offer a blogging etiquette class at Anderson University. It’s just who I am I guess…

    @Tommy…OK I apoligize. My intention was to convey the point that we should be actually spreading the Gospel instead of attacking people on blogs…however, I can see how it came acorss as prideful. It wasn’t my intention.

    Maybe I should have said let’s follow Jesus’ lead…I’m in!!! Who’s coming with??

  12. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 5:31 pm

    @Tommy…But the reason I said that in the first place is because you accused me of having a problem with God. I wasn’t just gonna come right out and say that stuff.

  13. Tommy F. Apr 15, 2009 6:44 pm

    @ NGottlieb: to clarify…. Are you saying that one should never confront sin, but rather only let God do so? Are you sure this is your argument?

    You wrote: “I said if God doesn’t want it to happen it won’t.” Really? There you go again with the fatalism. Perhaps you should re-read my 4/15 2:39pm post. You are dangerously close to making God the author of sin. Sirens should be blaring and lights flashing: Warning!

    Hamburger Helper? Fortunately, God predestined that I don’t eat that anymore.

  14. Matt Apr 15, 2009 6:47 pm

    I find it rather ironic, that if we aren’t supposed to be talking about NS in this manner, that Gottlieb is justified to talk about what Mr. Duncan is doing here.
    🙂
    @Gottlieb
    Theology is very important, it is the foundations of our faith.
    That is why the early creeds were written, to keep a standard of what is truth. Theology teaches about the truth behind Jesus, disciplines, the nature of God and what the Church should look and function like.

    Watch this if you’re not convinced enough:

    http://www.vimeo.com/3931511

    and by the way, Anderson University does offer a class about blog etiquette–it’s required. I’m in it currently.

  15. Christina Apr 15, 2009 6:49 pm

    @Nolan (go figure)

    “If God is God then He can do the nasty work of convicting Brad and Perry of their sins…again He doesn’t need your help in that matter. As the Spirit dwells in Perry and Brad He will certainly, in time, convict them of that sin (IF, in fact, they are in sin by tweeting BAMF and every other one of your claims).”

    what about Proverbs 27.17 “iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another” or 1 Cor 5.12-13 “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil one among you.”

    I believe that the problem here is whether the action Perry and Brad have committed is sin. Is using terminology that sets us among those on the “outside” of the church sin? Are we living above reproach using such language? Perry and BCoop in their positions should be extremely wary of anything that can be held against them.

  16. Twit Conway Apr 15, 2009 8:31 pm

    @TommyF: “Figure it out, and then come back and play some more.” 🙂 Stop it – you’re killin’ me! You are ‘dial-a-quote’!!

    @Nolan: Ahem, where do I start? Let’s just take the “If God is God then He can do the nasty work of convicting Brad and Perry of their sins…again He doesn’t need your help in that matter…” I’m guessing you don’t mean the same way God was God and sent Nathan to convict David of his sin? Or do you?

    I’m really puzzled by your statement that “I don’t think that theology is that serious…” Are you serious? Is that what’s taught at NS? Theology is VITAL (sorry for yelling everybody)! Agnostics have a theology – ‘we can’t know the truth about God’; pantheists have a theology – ‘everything is god’; even atheists have a theology – ‘there is no God’. Because everyone has a theology it’s important that we get it right!

    Theology is more than just how God has worked through history. It’s an understanding of who God is and why he works as well. Our theology (our belief about God) will determine our philosophy (what’s life about) which in turn determines our actions. Learning right theology was the touchstone of the believers in Acts 2.

  17. Nolan Gottlieb Apr 15, 2009 9:23 pm

    @everyone…I don’t think that the theology of the following is that serious…it’s pretty easy to understand:

    Don’t be nit-pickety. The lack of God’s instant destruction is not endorsement of anything. I never said it was…I said if God doesn’t want it to happen it won’t. Don’t put words into my mouth…or I guess I should say at the ends of my fingers.haha. God didn’t approve of Israel’s slavery in Egypt…didn’t destroy Egypt instantly, but He did eventually. God didn’t approve of Nazi Germany…didn’t destroy the Third Reich instantly, but He did eventually. He doesn’t approve of all the sin on earth…He hasn’t destroyed it yet, but He will eventually. If He doesn’t approve of NewSpring He’ll stop it…may not instantly, but He will eventually. I don’t think that theology is that serious…it’s just how God has worked throughout history.

    You people really think that I don’t think Theology is important??? I guess I should have put, I don’t think that that theology is that serious”…with the first that in italics.

    Nathan was calling out adultery and murder…very obvious sins here. Not hard to see these. You folks are questioning motives that you cannot be for sure about…THAT’S NOT THE SAME!

    Again everyone is missing the point…I believe our time is better spent when were not behind a computer screen criticizing people. I’ve wasted about an hour and a half with you when I could’ve been playing with fatherless kids in my neighborhood.

    This me washing my hands of this conversation…

    PS-I graduated in ’05…Before the blogging class. In ’01 nobody knew what a blog was.

    PSS- @Christina why would you say Nolan (Go figure)??

  18. Sara Grumbles Apr 15, 2009 10:19 pm

    @Nolan Gottlieb: Seriously, enough with the laundry list of your good deeds. You impress no one but yourself. It’s pathetic, along with your logic.

  19. Tommy F. Apr 15, 2009 11:11 pm

    @NGottlieb: I assume by your use of BAMF to describe BCoop you are defending his use of it to describe a place of worship.

    Would you like to actually defend NS – pick any of the posts from the past month or so – rather than rant on and on about how you don’t like people criticizing NS? I know you’re very busy in the ghetto (I was exhausted just reading about how busy you are), but how about a substantive thoughtful reply to the criticisms rather than your unhinged rants about how no one should ever criticize NS?

    Let’s make it direct: Is bamf appropriate language for a youth minister to use? If so, what’s your reply to concerned parents who have kids who mimic BCoop? If not, why don’t you say so?

    You’ve avoided virtually every verse cited above, and rely on questionable logic to try and shut us up. If your ranting seems over, why don’t you ask some of your friends to come and play… You’ve got thousands to choose from. Can you ask them to come out and play?

  20. James Duncan May 10, 2009 3:20 pm

    Nolan, I just noticed this. You said “Nathan was calling out adultery and murder…very obvious sins here. Not hard to see these. You folks are questioning motives that you cannot be for sure about…THAT’S NOT THE SAME!”

    The charge of murder was not at all obvious and had everything to do with motives. Kings (and presidents) frequently order men to the front lines and thence to their death. David was hoping that his legitimate military order would hide the fact that it was an illegitimate personal murder. It didn’t, and God used a man to call him out on it.

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