Holy rage at the ‘Spring
Posted: December 5th, 2009 | Author: James Duncan | Tags: Cooper, Critics, Duffey, Moorhead, Newspring, Noble, Twitter | 184 Comments »In mid October, Perry Noble made an intriguing statement in one of his sermons that the church had fired one of its employees for “going over the line” against a critic. “Don’t worry,” Noble assured his flock, the guy didn’t blow up anyone’s house.
Noble gave no more details about what his employee had done or who the critic was. He also didn’t reveal the kinds of activities—short of not blowing up houses—the person had been engaged in.
I was the critic, and what NewSpring subjected my family to was much more worrisome than blowing up a house.
It’s a long story. Take a seat. Take a deep breath. This will take a bit of telling.
I’m about to tell you how NewSpring insiders attempted to corrupt my family, sabotage an adoption, destroy my career, and ruin my reputation. This campaign, which became the subject of a police investigation, was conducted with the knowledge and encouragement of NewSpring’s senior leadership.
But we’re getting ahead of ourselves.
Billboards Article
Two years ago I submitted a column to the Anderson Independent, our local daily newspaper, which criticized a billboard campaign that NewSpring was conducting in our city that presented a bleak and degrading view of parenthood. Predicting the corrosive effects of the campaign on families and children, in particular my own, I asked Perry Noble, the pastor of the church, to take them down.
Before they published my article, someone at the newspaper asked me if I was really sure I wanted to do this. “They’ll come after you and try to destroy you,” I was told. Besides my house being flour bombed and a few people shouting at me as they passed by my office, the reaction wasn’t too bad.
Birth of Pajama Pages
In early 2009, I was teaching a class on Internet communication where I required my students to create and maintain their own blogs. To try to practice what I preached, I dusted off an old blog I’d created a year or two earlier with the URL pajamapages.com (the title a reference to a CBS executive’s dismissal of bloggers as worthless people who sit at home and write in their pajamas). After a few politically oriented posts, I noticed a post on one of my students’ blogs that highlighted a series called “SEXED” that was being promoted by NewSpring’s youth ministry. I took exception to the salacious image and statements that occupied the church’s stage, and said so in a blog post.
Shortly thereafter I noticed a video promotion for a sermon that looked like a condom ad. I wrote about it.
Then there was the youth minister describing the church using a despicable profanity. I wrote about that too.
The more I wrote, the more people started reading the blog. The more I looked at the public output of NewSpring church, the more I found to write about. So I kept writing.
Green-lighting the violent rage
One of the things I noticed was how paranoid pastors at NewSpring were of dissent and disagreement. To show how the paranoia at the top trickled down within the organization, I linked to a post by NewSpring’s creative pastor, Shane Duffey, where he described how he strongly questioned an underling based on his suspicions that the person was not sufficiently loyal.
Through the magic of blog trackbacks, Duffey noticed that I had linked to him a day or two later and mentioned it on his Twitter account. The following conversation ensued between Duffey; Josh Maxwell, a NewSpring security guard; and AH, one of Perry Noble’s personal assistants.
- Duffey: cool… one of my blog posts just got linked by the esteemed AU Prof James Duncan… wow… I’m honored!
- AH: @shaneduffey i am so tempted to read but i can’t. i sin when i read his blog. i have thoughts of making a prof. a _______ dog on a chain
- Maxwell (whose Twitter handle is mrmalph): @shaneduffey seriously, how much would you pay to get rid of that problem?
- Duffey: @mrmalph – ain’t worried about the prof, but thanks…
- Duffey: @AH – don’t read… he just hates on Pastor Furtick, @bcoop & @perrynoble… i’m in really good company!
- Duffey: @AH – also, major props for using my new favorite phrase!
- Maxwell: @garylamb wanna schedule another gang land beating? I have someone in mind and I need a redneck that doesnt care to come along.
- For context, this is the same Gary Lamb who said this:
- Maxwell: On my way to BTFOJD
- Duffey: @mrmalph is one of my most favorite people… Got lots of rage & I like that!
You know what my biggest regret in that church [that I used to attend] is? It’s how I left that church. If I had to do it over again today, this is how I’d have done it. I wish I had walked up in that church with a baseball bat, clocked that [old] woman in her noggin, punched her husband in the face, took a baseball bat to those pews, burnt the organ up, [and] set the piano on fire.
and this:
I hope you believe in God because you should get on your knees and cry out to Him like never before because if we find you, I can promise we will kick the crap out of you. It won’t be pretty, it won’t be over quickly, and it will be very painful.
This is a key conversation. Maxwell, whose job was to protect and defend the church, wanted to come after me to damage me. Rather than being chastised, one of NewSpring’s senior leaders encouraged him.
Nothing bad could come from that kind of encouragement, could it?
The Lamb eruption
Besides Perry Noble, my blog also occasionally covered the antics of Noble’s two personal protégés, Steven Furtick in Charlotte, and Gary Lamb in Canton, GA. On June 7, Lamb announced on his blog that he was resigning from his church because he had been engaged in a sexual affair with his personal assistant.
At the time, I had just arrived in New Zealand for a three-week trip to visit my father who was battling cancer (extraordinarily successfully so far). I did a bit of online research into Lamb’s relationship with his assistant and posted an article showing where and when Lamb’s problem may have started. Over the next couple of days I followed up with a few other Lamb-related posts.
I immediately noticed a massive spike in readership to my blog, largely driven by Google searches for Gary Lamb. A lot of people who had been unaware of my blog and its criticism of Perry Noble became regular readers, and—for some—commentators at that point.
Maxwell, though first made aware of my blog by Duffey, was apparently further aggravated by the Lamb posts. His own Twitter comments showed that something bad was going on in his life.
On June 8 he tweeted:
I haven’t wanted to go beat down the door of someones house and drag them from behind their pansy computer for a long time.
The behind-the-computer language is very similar to that used by Perry Noble, who describes a critic as someone “sitting in your underwear in your mothers basement behind a screen.”
The next day, Maxwell tweeted,
Devising a plan of attack. I read the Art of War – well at least half of it – ok, so I only read the preface. I can still do this!
On June 13 he again tweeted:
Madder than crap about an issue. I want to hit someone.
Things started going south very quickly. As I recount the events of June and July, some of the information comes from confessions to a local detective in October. In other words, although I knew at the time what was happening, I did not know who was doing it until much later.
Gay pornographic emails
On June 9 I received an email from “Hundred Thousand” at h.thousand@yahoo.com with the subject line: “I think You will recognize.” The message was empty except for a link to a jpg image of hardcore gay sex.
On June 11 I received another email, this time from an account purporting to be Steven Anderson of stevenanderson1611@yahoo.com, with the subject line “Faith World Baptist.” The email contained five paragraphs of biographical information about Steven Anderson, who is a fundamentalist Baptist pastor in Arizona who has been made fun of on some pro-NewSpring blogs. Beneath the text were three pornographic photographs, one of a naked man, and the other two of hardcore gay sex.
Both messages were sent by Travis Dickson, a NewSpring member and friend of Josh Maxwell (MrMalph).
Magazine subscription
On June 9, I received an email confirmation of a three-year subscription to OUT, a gay magazine that was to be delivered to my home address. I placed several calls to the magazine from New Zealand and cancelled the request before they put anything in the mail to me. I found out later that Dickson had also initiated this subscription.
Sales calls
Beginning on June 10 through June 11, I received approximately a dozen email confirmations of requests for auto insurance, life insurance and financial planning services. Many of the sales people also called my home, which means the person making the request also provided them with my home phone number. On June 12, I received email confirmations for requests to enroll at two online universities. On June 18, my wife (who remained home in Anderson while I was in New Zealand) received a call that a Ford Flex vehicle was ready for delivery to my house. On the same date, I also received email confirmations of the same thing. As with the magazines, none of these services or products was requested by my wife or me.
The calls continued through July, and I found out from one of the sales agents who called me that he had paid approximately $20 to get my name and number. Not only did the calls serve to harass my wife, they cost third parties real money for a hoax lead.
First Twitter impersonation
On June 10 or 11, Eric Elgin, another NewSpring member and friend of Josh Maxwell, initiated a Twitter account with the handle, jduncandotcom, which included my photograph in the account profile. The posts named my wife and son, the street I live on, and contained insults directed at the president of Anderson University, where I work. It also showed an interest in homosexual sex with Tommy Frederick, a regular poster in the comments section on my blog.
Elgin said that he had intended to startle Maxwell my having his fake account link to Maxwell’s Twitter account as a follower. Elgin said that he soon told Maxwell it was he who had started it, and gave Maxwell the password so that he could start adding his own content to it.
A friend alerted me to the account’s existence, after which I contacted Twitter from New Zealand and had it shut down on June 13.
Wikiversity
On June 14, I received an email confirmation request from wikiversity.org that indicated that someone was trying to create an account that combined my son’s name and my street address. I didn’t activate the confirmation link, so the account wasn’t created.
Late-night phone calls
At 3 a.m. on June 18, my wife answered a call and heard a computerized voice say, “Perry Noble has just posted something new on his blog. We need you to read it and tear it apart.” The call originated from Abbyme.com, a site that allows users to enter a phone number and text message. The site then generates a call to the number and a computer-generated voice reads the message. Our caller ID indicated that the call came from Anderson University (it didn’t, but the caller ID is a parameter than Abbyme lets users set).
In early July I received another Abbyme.com call that threatened to cut off my cell phone for late payment. Travis Dickson later said that he had cut and paste the text from a real Verizon message.
At 9 a.m. on July 14, I answered another computer-generated call from Abbyme that said, “You are an asshole. When are you going to post again, you hypocrite?” We’ll come back to this call, and you’ll see how the date and time of this call were particularly sinister.
Forged resignation letter
On June 13, Ben Milstead mailed a signed resignation letter in my name to the provost at Anderson University, where I am a tenured associate professor of communication. On June 16, the provost emailed me to communicate his regret at my resignation. I informed him that it was a hoax and, thankfully, retained my job.
Milstead later explained that he had discussed the plan to send the letter with Maxwell, and they had wanted it to draw the university’s attention to my blog, with the goal of having them censor it or shut it down.
It didn’t work that way, and their assumption demonstrated a poor understanding of the place of debate within a Christian liberal arts institution. University administrators have never talked to me about my blog, either to praise it or condemn it. So long as I’m not speaking for the university–and I’m not–, our robust academic community encourages thinking and debate on a wide range of important issues.
Revived Twitter account
On June 13, the same day that the jduncandotcom Twitter account was deleted, a new Twitter account appeared with the handle, jamesduncanAU. This time, Maxwell noted on the top of the page that the account was a parody, which, under Twitter’s rules at the time, meant that I could not ask for this one to be shut down. The parody note was designed simply to keep the account open. Let me assure you, what followed over the next three months was no parody. It was outright savagery.
A screen shot from August of some of the jamesduncanau account followers.
Before I tell you just how bad it was, it’s important to note that many NewSpring insiders knew about the account, several even openly following it. Jason Moorhead, Newspring’s chief operations officer, followed the account from its earliest days, a NewSpring communications director also started following the account in July. Both were still following the account in September when Maxwell eventually deleted it and its contents.
Maxwell was aware that there was a large following of church staffers, and at one point even addressed them directly, asking them for ideas on what new content he should add (besides his own brilliant idea of turning me into a transsexual). On many occasions, the fake account directly addressed leaders like Noble and Cooper, who would have had my name and the often-pornographic content of the message flash through their own accounts.
Maxwell’s statement to police claimed that NewSpring staff did not know he was the author. Even so, Milstead, who knew Maxwell was the author and who also followed the account, told me later that no one ever tried to get the author to stop his activity. It was quite apparent that the author was not me, and it was equally obvious that the person behind it was actually a member and supporter of NewSpring church.
Once you see some of the content, you might think, with me, that it is remarkable that not one person’s alarm went off. No one thought that this content, which was publicly accessible, might not present NewSpring in a flattering light. No one thought that my family was worth protecting from this threatening person. All it would have taken was a simple tweet from someone like Perry Noble to tell the person to shut up and delete the account. To my knowledge, no such message was sent.
Family attacks
Maxwell repeatedly mentioned my family in his twitter posts in a way that felt like we were being aggressively stalked. He identified by wife and son by name, and even correctly revealed my son’s age and the location of his school. He also correctly described the make and model of our cars, and described journeys my wife took in our minivan.
The tweets include vile descriptions of my wife’s sexual behaviors and anatomy (you’ll excuse me, I hope, if I don’t quote those ones). When Steven Furtick preached a series on cow tipping, Maxwell invited him to come and tip my wife over. Maxwell repeatedly described my son as abused and someone who wore women’s underwear around the house. He seemed to enjoy threatening me, warning me that I could “only shelter a child for so long.” One post seemed to promise vandalism against my home:
and yep. theres a big bag of poop in my mail box. looks like human turds instead of dog… sick individuals
I had very real fears that something awful was about to happen, so it was at this point that I went to the police.
No family member seemed exempt from his anger. After posting an account of having the privilege to have preached at the same church in New Zealand that my father and grandfather had pastored, and showing a photo of them in the church’s gallery of pastors, Maxwell responded:
my dad and my grandpa look retarded
did i ever tell u that my dad beat me as a child? and he calls himself a pastor… maybe this is where my rage comes from
The most distressing series of messages came in August, when Maxwell started talking about my son’s backyard play equipment. Earlier this year, I built my son a 140-foot zip line in our back yard. It was really something, and my son enjoyed being able to share it with kids who lived on our street, including quite a few kids who filtered into our back yard from the subdivision behind us. Because it was behind our house, you couldn’t really see it from the street, though you could see the platform from which the kids took off. Unless you actually saw kids playing on it, there would be no way to know just by looking at my house that there was a zip line in the back.
So it was a surprise when on August 2 and 3, Maxwell left comments like this:
it would thrill me to see a hundred kids zipping back and forth in my backyard
feel free to come by the house and use my zip line!
It puzzled me how he knew about that. He had also mentioned a trampoline of ours, offering it for sale on Twitter, though it is possible that he saw that from the street (not a terribly comforting idea, but not as threatening as the zip line reference).
Remember that I said that Maxwell’s friend, Jason Moorhead, had followed the fake Twitter account? This particular NewSpring pastor lives just three houses away (500 feet) in the subdivision behind ours. Might he have passed the information about the zip line to Maxwell? You be the judge, but note Maxwell’s message from August 2:
what would you the reader like to see? i know there are alot of you that just read and dont follow. tell me. what would u like to see?
On August 2, Maxwell asks his NewSpring readers if anyone has any ideas to further harass me. Jason Moorhead, a NewSpring pastor, lives just a few houses behind mine, in the neighborhood from which we had welcomed kids into our yard. It was Moorhead who was receiving Maxwell’s messages in his Twitter feeds. The very next day, Maxwell is chirping about kids playing on my zip line. More than just reading, did NewSpring’s pastor feed content to Maxwell? I don’t know for sure, but the only other way that Maxwell knew about kids playing on my zip line was for him to have parked outside our house to watch my son play, or to enter my property to see what was back there. Perversely, the Moorhead theory is the most comforting.
Even so, once we connected those dots, all those possibilities were rather terrifying for my wife. She, quite reasonably, feels violated and unsafe in our own home.
Homosexual fantasies
Through his tweets, Maxwell seemed obsessed with descriptions of homosexual sex, especially accounts of acts between Tommy Frederick, a regular commentator on the blog, and me. On repeated occasions Maxwell describes an obscene sex act called a rusty trombone, and fantasizes about me being raped. I am going to leave most of what he said unquoted, but here’s a little sample:
@tommyfrederick i always think of you while i am squeezing turds out of my rectum. why is this?
my butt hurts. wonder if @tommyfrederick came over last night without me knowing! u sly fox!
At one point, Maxwell spun a story about me being abducted by three black men.
after a wild night of chip n dales, booze, cocaine and practical jokes in Homeland Park. we shall end it with 3 big black guys
the black guys have our hands and feet bound together with rope. dont ask how i am typing this. and no im not using my nose.
@tommyfrederick how are you going to leave me bound and gagged in this unknown place and be tweeting pnoble?
@burningp u tell that worthless bag of crap @tommyfrederick that i didnt pull my pants around my ankles for nothing. he needs to b here
never trust 3 black guys with pitbulls that u meet at simones bar. lessoned learned. hope [my wife’s name] understands
Maxwell’s posts often involved sex with black men.
i also like the way that Ron [Carpenter] holds a big black … mic … in his hands
At one point, however, black men were excluded from my sexual activities in a series of posts that invited people to a swingers’ party at my house.
oh forgot 2 mention – swingers party @ my house – details coming soon – check the pages of pajamas for details
in anderson? wanna party? send me a message! we have sexy time in a couple weeks.
details coming soon. stay tuned. bi curious welcome. no asian women
swingers party @ the duncan house. couples welcome, even fat chicks. no black dudes please! [The post listed my street and house number] is where its at. be here!
That was an invitation that I took seriously. Given that a Twitter search for any of the terms in that last message could appear to anyone who was looking for sexual misadventure, I slept on the couch that night with one eye on the front door.
Invitation to Murder
In early July, the story that was dominating the news was of a serial killer in Gaffney, SC, which is only about 80 minutes’ drive from Anderson. The killing spree started when a gunman killed a man who had advertised some hay for sale. Maxwell put out three invitations to the killer, who was still on the loose:
if you are looking for some hay please come see @tommyfrederick and i!
@tommyfrederick and i are selling some hay this week
i’ve got some hay for sale if anyone is interested
Perhaps you think that I was over-reacting and reading too much into this stuff. The problem with violent words and threats is that they sometimes become real. It’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt. I didn’t want my family to get hurt, so these threats felt plenty real to me.
The Failed Adoption
In early May my wife and I had received a very welcome call from Julie Dixon, the director of our local Care Pregnancy Clinic, that a young lady had reviewed our family profile and had selected us as the family she wanted to adopt her baby boy, who was due in mid July. We were told that she didn’t want to actually meet us until the delivery, though we received fairly regular assurances from Julie Dixon and our adoption attorney that the young lady was still confident about her decision to have us adopt her baby.
Although I posted a couple of items on my blog that promoted the concept of adoption, I kept the fact that we were about to adopt a secret, except for our family and some close friends.
On Friday, July 9, we got a slightly disconcerting message from Julie Dixon that the birth mother was feeling unsettled, and that she wanted to meet us the following Tuesday. We were also told that the previous evening Dixon had arranged for a group from her church to take her out for dinner and “love on her.”
Anticipating that the mother might give birth at any time—the baby was officially due on the 22nd—we purchased a roomful of baby furniture and equipment. On Monday afternoon we were told that the mother had been admitted to the hospital, so that evening I worked up a sweat installing the baby seat in the back of our van.
Julie Dixon called us at about 8 a.m. on Tuesday to tell us that the mother was going into labor, and that the birth mother wanted us to come in to the hospital to see her. We were to wait for Dixon to call us before we came, though.
Anticipating that call, I answered the phone at 9 a.m. expecting the invitation to the hospital. Instead, it was the AbbyMe.com call I mentioned earlier, telling me that I was an asshole and a hypocrite. Within the hour we got the call from Dixon to come in.
Expecting that the next time we came home it would be with our new son, we packed baby clothes, diapers and all the accoutrements into our van and set off. Our son was loaded up with an armload of books to pass the time while waiting for his new brother.
A few minutes after arriving at the hospital, we were ushered into the delivery room where we spent about 15 minutes talking to the young lady. As we talked to her, she indicated that she had memorized so many details about our lives from the little family portfolio, which she said she had read “hundreds of times.” Our meeting was going very well until a nurse asked us to go to the waiting room while she got an epidural.
Perhaps an hour later, we were told that the birth mother wanted to meet my wife alone. She began by asking my wife if we really wanted the baby. My wife explained that we had the room set up, we had the car seat ready, and that she even had a prescription from her doctor for the hormones to enable her to breast feed. “We couldn’t want this baby any more than we do,” my wife assured her.
The young lady then dropped a bombshell. She said that Dixon had called her into the office the previous Thursday to introduce her to a new family. She said, “I feel terrible because I promised you the baby, but Julie introduced me to this family that she likes.” Seeing that the mother was stressed and conflicted, my wife backed off and said that while we really wanted a baby after ten years of miscarriages and infertility, we mainly wanted the mother to be at peace with her decision. My wife offered to pay for a social worker to come to the hospital to be the young mother’s advocate in whatever she decided, and then was asked to leave the room after about 20 minutes by a lady who was identified as a pregnancy center volunteer.
When my wife told me about what she’d learned and her offer to help, I drove home to get the number of an adoption social worker in Greenville to see if she would be able to come down on short notice. When I got back to the hospital, my wife was waiting for me outside, having been told by Dixon that the birth mother had made a decision, but that we should go home and wait for our attorney to call before we came back.
At 5 that afternoon, our attorney called us to tell us that the mother had selected the other family. We did not know who the family was or why she had picked them, and we didn’t expect that we would ever find out. We grieved the loss and prayed for the mother’s peace and that the new family would fully experience the joy we had been so close to ourselves.
When I called Julie Dixon two days later to see if I could find out at least a little background on what had just happened, she told me that the birth mother had come in to her office the previous week with the new family already selected. I had no reason to challenge her account, but the two stories varied considerably. The birth mother said she had been introduced to the new family at Dixon’s initiative, and she was still apparently conflicted about her decision when we met with her at the hospital. On the other hand, Julie Dixon told us that the mother had made the decision herself and had brought the family in so she could introduce them to Dixon.
Exactly one week later, as a couple of kids from a neighboring subdivision were playing on our zip line, one of the kids’ grandmother came into our yard to see what her grandson had been talking about and spending so much time on that week. I talked to her for a few minutes, and then my wife came out and talked to her some more. She said that her granddaughter was off on a church trip (it was the same week as NewSpring’s youth group’s Florida trip), and she was looking after her grandson in the meantime. She saw our son and asked if we had any other children. My wife said that we didn’t, and that we had almost adopted a baby just the week before.
Our visitor asked, “Did that happen on Tuesday?”
My wife said, “Yes.”
Then our visitor asked, “Was it a baby boy?”
Again, “Yes.”
The lady told us that she knew the family that had adopted—a pastor at NewSpring church, she said—and that she was a close friend of the baby’s adoptive grandparents. She told us how pleased they all were.
In the meantime, Maxwell had been tweeting about this as well, though I didn’t realize it until after the adoption. On July 3, almost two weeks before the birth, Maxwell listed my chores for the day, which included “adopt a child.” He followed that with this:
buying a child is hard to do
Why might I need to buy a child? Perhaps if the child I thought I was going to adopt was going to go to someone else?
The day before the birth, when the mother was in the hospital, he tweeted this:
well i said i was taking a break @ pajamapages.com – something must have happened to change my mind.
In late June I had announced that I was going to slow down my blogging because I had important family events coming up. Part of the reason for the announcement was to see if it would get the harassers to back off; it didn’t. Maxwell apparently knew that the family event I alluded to was an adoption, and he was presciently aware that there was going to be no adoption to keep me busy at home.
As I mentioned before, on the day of the birth I got the second Abbyme phone call. That afternoon, Maxwell made a reference to my wife, who he probably expected would be angry, locking me up in a closet since 1 p.m., the very time we had been sent packing from the hospital.
i just drank shoe polish … my wife has had me locked in the closet since 1pm!
Either Maxwell is a medium, or he somehow knew our movements all that day.
Most chillingly, on July 18, just four days after the birth, an anonymous comment was submitted to my blog by someone calling himself Marco Polo that said, “Thankful children’s agencies read Pajama Pages.” I knew what that meant—my blog was the reason the adoption had failed. I traced the IP address of Marco Polo to Ben Milstead, Maxwell’s friend and the person who had sent my fake resignation letter.
Two weeks before the adoption Maxwell seemed to know that we would not be adopting a baby. He knew what we were doing on the day of the birth, and Milstead took it upon himself to explain why a few days later.
Exactly how it all went down, I don’t know, though Milstead shed a little bit of light on it in his statement to the sheriff in October. Said Milstead,
Josh Maxwell told me that Mr. Duncan had tried to adopt but the person making the decision was aware of the blog (independent of that particular adoption) and that it was one of the deciding factors as to who got the child.
When I asked Julie Dixon to explain what Milstead was saying, she refused to answer and referred me to her attorney.
I later found out that Jason Wilson was the new father, which came as a bit of a shock because he was the person that I had been corresponding with at the church to try to set up a meeting to inform the church about what had been happening. (More about meetings and such later.)
When NewSpring’s leaders figured out that I wanted to talk to them about the adoption, they lawyered up as well.
Police Investigation
Genuinely fearful of physical harm befalling my family or me, I reported the harassment to the Anderson County sheriff’s office on July 24. The detective who investigated the case, himself a member of Newspring (who disclosed that fact to me at the outset with an offer to recuse himself), served search warrants on Twitter to get the IP of the person who was posting the content, then on Research in Motion to get the name of the subscriber to the Blackberry device that was being used for the account.
The man behind the harassment was Josh Maxwell, a full-time security staff member at NewSpring. Three other volunteers (Milstead, Eric Elgin, and Travis Dickson) also confessed to their involvement in the harassment, though none were as involved as Maxwell.
I met with an assistant solicitor for the county in October to see what charges might be warranted. For various reasons, the solicitor could only press a single charge against Dickson for distribution of pornography. I had already decided that if Maxwell, the main driver of the campaign, was not going to be charged, it wasn’t fair for him to get off while his friend, who was only briefly involved, was held legally accountable. I told the solicitor that I would not press the charge.
When and why did you want to meet with Perry Noble?
When I got back from New Zealand in late June, I emailed Brad Cooper to ask him to set up a meeting with him and Perry so I could tell them about what I considered to be criminal harassment that appeared to be coming from someone on their staff. I trusted Cooper because we had met—at his request—for coffee on April 1. (NewSpring’s statement says this meeting happened in February. This should have been an easy fact to check because I didn’t start blogging about NewSpring or Cooper until March 6.) Cooper asked that we keep our meeting confidential, which is why I have not mentioned it until now.
Cooper did not respond to my June request, so I sent him a follow-up email on July 6. That evening, I received an email from Jason Wilson, to whom Cooper had forwarded my email. Wilson asked me to email him whatever information I had. I responded by reiterating my request to meet in person with Noble and emphasized that I did not want to talk to him about any of the content of my blog, just about the harassment. Wilson continued to insist that I email him, so I dropped my request.
Why?
Because I thought that Wilson himself was deeply aware of the harassment I was talking about and was feigning ignorance. You see, I had known all of June that a Jaysizzle had been following Maxwell’s tweets (I didn’t know it was Maxwell at the time). A little bit of Googling revealed Jaysizzle to be Jason Moorhead, the (former) executive pastor of Newspring church. Google’s results didn’t make it obvious that Moorhead’s job title had changed, so, as far as I knew, Jason Moorhead, the executive pastor was very aware of what was happening. When I got an email from Jason Wilson, the executive pastor, asking me to tell him everything I knew, I froze. I confused Wilson for Moorhead, and I certainly wasn’t going to trust someone I thought was a participant in the harassment to do anything to stop it.
The next I heard from Wilson was October 8, the day that Maxwell told them he had been interviewed by the detective, to tell me that they had fired him.
It doesn’t seem like Wilson did anything with my information. If he had simply asked in a senior leadership meeting if anyone knew why I might be complaining about harassment, surely Moorhead could have figured out what I was talking about. Their public relations staffer should also have been able to figure it out. They both subscribed to Maxwell’s sewage.
I do know that he called their lawyer, who told me a few weeks ago that he had been involved with this since the summer. NewSpring’s leaders apparently wanted to protect themselves from me, but didn’t seem to care about protecting me from them.
After I went to the sheriff, I could not and did not talk to them, otherwise I could jeopardize the detective’s investigation. After resolving the issue of whether we would press charges, I contacted Wilson again to ask for a meeting with Perry to fill him in on what had happened. As I noted at the outset, Noble told his congregation not to worry about what Maxwell had done, so it seemed to me that he probably didn’t know the full story. Wilson sent a cursory response inviting me to email him whatever information I had. As you can see, there’s a bit much going on here to fit in an email.
I sent him and Cooper (at this point I figured that Wilson was probably dodging me because of the adoption) a small sample of what Maxwell had said and asked again for a meeting.
Again, silence.
I suggested to them that if they wouldn’t listen to me face to face that I might have to tell them about it via my blog. The problem with that, from my perspective, is that I had not told my wife about some of the viler aspects of what had happened or about the adoption tweets. I could not make any information public that would be a surprise to her, yet I wanted to shield her from the emotional pain of learning about the adoption. Once again I emailed Cooper and Wilson and asked them to respond to me a week later by noon on Nov 10, which my wife knew was the time for our spill-the-beans appointment with each other.
After the noon deadline had passed, I knew I was going to have to deliver the devastating news to my wife, so I tried one last time by emailing Perry and his personal assistant directly to ask if they knew that Wilson and Cooper were blocking my request for a meeting. I asked for them to respond by 3 p.m. so that I did not have to reveal this mess to my wife.
Again they missed it, and as I was talking to her I got an emailed letter from their attorney in Texas asking me to correspond only with him.
Unfortunately for us, it was 90 minutes too late.
The next day, I sent the attorney a summary of what I have told you here, and guessed that his client would probably prefer that I not reveal this information publicly. A few days later, the attorney contacted me with a request to meet in person. As NewSpring’s statement noted, on Nov 17 we met and talked for about an hour. We’ve had meaningful correspondence a few more times since then, the last time just minutes before the church published its statement.
The chronology of unsuccessful requests for meetings is important to know, but it doesn’t help answer this question: Why wasn’t NewSpring requesting a meeting with me? On the day that Maxwell was fired, Wilson and Noble knew that I had been correct in my assertion of harassment back in June. Although Wilson did have the courtesy to inform me of the termination, his message contained no apology and no request for further information. Is it too much to expect that a church might be a little curious to investigate just how badly one of their employees had hurt another Christian? Did they not suspect that this bad character might not have told them everything that he had done? Wilson’s email, as well as their statement yesterday, hoped for the restoration of Maxwell and his friends.
Restoration for me? Why bother?
Did you ask them for money?
Yes.
Remember that I had been seeking a meeting to inform the senior pastor of the church about what some in his leadership team knew and did (mainly, didn’t do) about Maxwell. I guessed that he might be curious.
In response, Noble sent me his attorney. I’m not stupid; you send in attorneys to clean up messes. They’re generally not used for spiritual discipline and accountability. I had asked to speak to the church’s spiritual oversight, and they wanted to talk business instead. The attorney started our meeting by saying that the church had a benevolence fund and that they might be able to compensate me once I told them what had happened. They talked money well before I ever did.
I told the attorney, who had flown up from Dallas for our meeting, that I assumed that his presence meant the church wanted to resolve this privately. Based on that assumption, we then talked about two options.
My first preference was to have Perry Noble take some responsibility for what seemed to be a systemic culture of hate that existed from top to bottom in his staff (Maxwell to Moorhead). I reiterated that my main purpose in presenting this information to Noble was to have him see just what his characterizations of his critics had wrought. Since Noble had partially acknowledged that there had been trouble a few weeks before, I thought there was a chance that he might be willing to explain a bit more. Having seen how much we had been harmed, I thought there was also a chance that he might be willing to compensate my family to restore what we had lost.
My suggestion to the attorney had several key components:
- Noble would recognize that his preaching and blogging had sent signals to his staff that they could attack me with impunity. (The attorney laughed at the prospect of Noble ever doing that.)
- Having taken some responsibility for his staff’s actions, Noble would tell my story in broad strokes. At the same time, he could say that he and I had been reconciled and that we had been compensated for our loss and troubles.
- We would mention the boasting that surrounded the failed adoption, though we wouldn’t connect the Wilsons to the story.
- I suggested that this could happen on a Sunday morning (as it did with his first announcement), at a press conference, or in a post on his blog that linked to a statement on mine that would confirm our new reconciled relationship.
- As a part of this deal, I would agree to hold the church, its staff and volunteers legally blameless so that I would not be able to move any of these issues to a civil court for a redress of the libel, harassment and emotional distress that we’ve endured.
This was an effort at reconciliation, and it was my wife’s and my personal preference, as I made clear to the attorney. For some reason, Noble seems to have completely got the wrong end of the stick on this offer. His statement yesterday accuses me of wanting to “share the pulpit” so that I could publicly “denounce” the church.
How crazy do they think I am?
The proposal, which I acknowledged to the attorney was probably an idealistic pipe dream, was that Noble and I would have met and resolved our differences. Noble could then, as a part of his announcement, introduce me to his church as his new friend. The idea was that all of the words would come from Noble; I wouldn’t say anything at all. The idea was that he could say, and I could nod, that we had had forgiven one another.
At the end of the meeting, the attorney asked me about money. How much money did I think was warranted as compensation? I told him $1.5 million.
You gasp.
I agree.
Here’s why I asked for such an astounding number:
- I expected the number to deflate significantly in the process of negotiation. Anyone who negotiates any of these types of settlements knows that you don’t start with your bottom line. After taking the initial figure to Noble, I expected that the attorney would want to come back and earn his fee by knocking me down by a bunch of dollars. I think it’s a bit much for NewSpring to be huffing and puffing about a figure that they asked be put on the table, but that they didn’t care to negotiate over. Report the number that I walk away from, and then complain that that’s what I demanded. They have no idea what I would have settled for. Also, demanded really isn’t the right word. They said no, right? (The attorney’s email to me announcing their rejection of the options and their simultaneous public announcement were coordinated to the minute.)
- I figured that roughly half of what we negotiated down to would be given to God and government.
- I wanted to expedite another adoption. Adoptions themselves are very expensive. The other consideration is that, especially for older couples—my wife and I are in our early 40s—the adoption process is a little bit like a financial beauty contest. Birth mothers pick families for all sorts of different reasons, but an important one is the financial profile of the adoptive family. Having money to spend on an expensive adoption, and having a more healthy net worth would both work in our favor.
- We feel like we’ve lost a home. We wanted money to move out of our current house and buy a new one. When my wife learned about the sex-party invitation and the zip-line references, she felt profoundly exposed and violated. Mr. Jaysizzle continues to live in a house we can see from our back yard.
- We lost a baby. That’s an emotional scar that will last for the rest of our lives. Compensating folk for emotional costs is not completely unheard of.
- Did you read what they said about my wife and son (and you saw but a small fraction)? How much would you have asked for if that had been done to your family? It wouldn’t be $50. How much is your family’s honor worth to you and to them?
The attorney guessed that Noble probably wasn’t going to go for that, so, if publication wasn’t an acceptable option, the only remaining option was to resolve everything privately with no admission of responsibility from Noble or NewSpring.
Two considerations drove our discussion on this prospect. First, would the amount be large enough to encourage Noble to think twice about demonizing his critics so often? If you’re familiar with civil judgments, you know the difference between personal damages and punitive damages. That was the basic concept I was angling for. Having explained what I thought was reasonable (again, assuming they were going to come back with a lower counteroffer) compensation for my personal damages, I suggested that we double that amount for this second option, hence the $3m.
The second consideration was whether NewSpring could trust me to keep my word, which was something the attorney was worried about. The solution to that was to spread those payments out over ten years, contingent on my honoring the deal. So, start with your $3m, adjust it with a low-ball counteroffer, halve that with what goes to God and government, then divide that by ten.
Yes, it’s still a lot more money than most of us have ever seen, but perhaps it’s not as breathtaking as when you first saw it on NewSpring’s blog yesterday.
Was this extortion? No. I waited until the investigation had been completed and the solicitor’s office had had a chance to process criminal charges. Everything I have to say was once public, though perhaps not many people saved it before it was deleted. I was negotiating with the attorney that they sent to me to try to settle legal matters out of court to avoid the expense, heartburn and publicity that would be involved in taking that route. At their request, we were also calculating appropriate levels of personal compensation. People will disagree about whether my number was appropriate, but they were the ones who asked for a number.
As outraged as Noble seemed to be in his announcement yesterday, you should know that it took the church more than two weeks to decide to reject either one of these arrangements. In fact, the attorney called me back the day after our meeting to make sure he understood the parameters of the deal. On Tuesday this week, he asked me to specify the details in writing so he could send the proposal to the church’s liability insurance company. (Were they just setting me up for yesterday’s announcement? Perhaps. It was that document that was the source of all the quotes in NewSpring’s announcement.) If my claims are really so hollow and outrageous, why not reject them with the phone call the very next day? Why did Noble need so long to make his decision?
Why are you making this public?
Because it’s my last remaining option to inform Noble about what he and his church staff have done. It certainly wasn’t my preferred option.
The Biblical standard for dispute resolution is to deal with each other privately first, which even NewSpring’s statement acknowledges that I tried to do. Here’s the sequence from Matthew 25:15-17:
If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Despite my best efforts from June on to talk to people I could trust, the private meetings just weren’t going to be allowed to happen. Perry Noble is the church, so there was no higher authority to appeal to if he refused to listen. (Just so you don’t misapply this verse, I do not consider Noble to be a pagan.)
As for the propriety of attempting an out-of-court settlement, we can find that in Matthew 5:25:
Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court.
I tried.
I have been repeatedly struck by the leadership’s profound lack of curiosity about what happened. Why didn’t Wilson ask around the office suites in July about what was happening? Certainly a lot of people knew.
Why didn’t Wilson ask me about what had happened when he fired Maxwell?
Even the attorney didn’t really seem to want to know. Before our meeting, he asked me to bring as much documentation as I had to prove my claims. Throughout our meeting, I held a folder stacked full of all sorts of things, including the sheriff’s incident report and the four signed confessions, yet he didn’t ask to see one page of what I had. To this day, I doubt that NewSpring’s leadership even knows what’s in those confessions.
When we talked, the attorney argued that NewSpring had done everything it could to investigate what had happened and that they’d fired Maxwell as soon as they figured out that he was the culprit. By the end of July, even I (with the help of some good friends) had fingered Maxwell as the person behind the Twitter account, and I didn’t know who he was. We’re to believe that it was impossible for them to figure it out?
As for patting themselves on the back for finding and firing him, there’s not a lot of credit to be had there. After being interviewed by the detective and signing his confession, Maxwell told his superiors at the church that he was in trouble, prompting his termination. That weekend, Noble told us all not to worry about what he had done, and the attorney told me that when he showed Noble the content of some of Maxwell’s tweets just a few weeks ago, Noble was shocked.
Whence the shock? Noble seems to have had very little idea why he was really firing Maxwell, and no one bothered to ask me to find out.
Do you blame the Wilsons for the failed adoption?
No.
Although there were plenty of people around Wilson who knew what was happening, I have no reason to believe that he knew who the birth mother’s original choice was. We are happy for them and we prayed for them when it happened, even though we didn’t know who the Wilsons were. We are happy that the boy who was just hours away from being our son is going to grow up in a family that is zealous for Jesus. God knew before this baby was conceived that he would be a Wilson, not a Duncan. We’re at peace with that.
We also have no regrets about the birth mother’s decision. If she ever reads this, we want her to know that we genuinely believe that she made the right decision. She met both of us and chose the Wilsons because they were a better family for her child. That’s as it should be.
Who is responsible?
Josh Maxwell, primarily.
Eric Elgin and Travis Dickson, who were active primarily at the outset, though both had knowledge of Maxwell’s activities throughout.
Ben Milstead, who sent the resignation letter and mentioned the adoption failure in an anonymous message to me. Unlike the folk in the church’s leadership, Milstead has been a standup guy about taking responsibility and restoring relationships. Though he and I both regret what he did this summer, we have met in person since then and had a cleansing dialog. Ben continues to post comments on this blog, usually disagreeing with me, though in a courteous manner. We occasionally correspond with each other privately through email, and, remarkably enough, I would count him as a friend. It was my experience with Ben that gave me some hope that perhaps I could come to the same level of friendly, respectful disagreement with Noble that would be the basis for that first option that I outlined earlier.
Shane Duffey, NewSpring’s creative pastor, who saw Maxwell start to go into a violent rage back in late May. When someone so high up in leadership compliments a junior staffer who has such obviously violent intentions, he must take some responsibility for what that staffer does. Duffey’s message: to get in the leadership’s good books, destroy James Duncan.
Jason Moorhead (aka Jaysizzle), NewSpring’s chief operations officer, who apparently monitored Maxwell’s tweets throughout and perhaps-knowingly or unknowingly–gave him content for his campaign. Every time that Maxwell logged in to the fake account, he could see that Moorhead was following him, as was their public relations staffer, though she joined a bit later. Perhaps Maxwell expected that Moorhead would rebuke him for what he was doing. Every vile tweet that Maxwell added that didn’t trigger Moorhead to “unfollow” must have told him that he was doing well. From June through September anyone who visited Moorhead’s Twitter page could see a JD icon in the list of Twitterers that Moorhead followed. How many people in the church used Moorhead’s public involvement as a green light to take delight in what was happening there?
Milstead told me that he actually talked to Moorhead, a fellow follower of the account, about whether it was such a wise thing for them to be following the account so publicly. Perhaps it wasn’t, though neither thought it problematic enough to stop following.
The many anonymous NewSpring insiders who found Maxwell’s messages entertaining. In my debriefing with the detective, he told me that Maxwell knew that there were many people inside the church who were reading his tweets, though most didn’t know that it was Maxwell who was behind it. Milstead told me the same thing. All it would have taken was one person to see the damage that this person, who at times was obviously tweeting from inside NewSpring’s services, was doing to the reputation of the church. That no one thought that it might be a good idea to have Wilson or Noble send this person a direct message through Twitter to ask that he stop is something that will puzzle me for a long time.
Jason Wilson, the executive pastor, who apparently did nothing, besides calling the Texas attorney, to investigate my complaints about harassment.
Perry Noble, the senior pastor, who continues to demonize his critics. I’ve argued before that when you portray your critics as being unsaved enemies of the church, you do give the green light to people like Maxwell to do what he did, and to all the mid-level folk who took vicarious pleasure in what he was saying. This is what I hoped, and continue to hope, that Noble will see. Words mean things, and meaningful words often result in real-world actions. Maxwell and friends acted entirely consistently with Noble’s teaching on how to deal with criticism.
As I’ve noted before, even when Noble took time to coach his church on how to deal with critics, he sandwiched his lesson in a story of fantasized violence against a young woman and referred to me as a “so-called” Christian. If Noble is going to learn anything from this summer, he doesn’t appear to have learned it yet.
Similar Posts:
- Looking again at NewSpring’s big announcement
- NewSpring’s curious silence
- A few of my favorite comments
- Noble ties himself to the mast
- Shut up, they explained
It is impressive to how the crucible of criticism and Christian admonishment stripped the facade from Newspring Church and its senior leadership. I am disheartened but not surprised to see that they are arrogant bullies. This series of incidents has destroyed any witness they had for me, my family, and our friends. I have overlooked Perry’s obvious love of money and material goods, affection for firearms and the violence they bring, and folksy sayings that are presented as biblical fact. However, greenlighting and attack a man’s family is so far over the top that it reminds me of the mafia. What’s even scarier is that it was helped along by Newspring’s private security guards.
I truly believe Perry Noble is a false prophet and this tawdry series of incidents serves as proof.
James,
That is an incredibly shocking and saddening story. I’m praying for you and your family.
You are truly a psychopath. You claim to be a Christian. I don’t believe it says anywhere in the Bible that you are to spend all your time and energy trying to destroy others. Do you not ever tell anyone about the Gospel? It’s idiots like you who give Christians a bad name and cause nonbelievers to stay far away from church. I attend NewSpring. We are obviously doing God work. Otherise, we would not be experiencing such a strong attack from Satan (James Duncan). God will deal with you for trying to crucify His people. You are a pitiful excuse for a human being. I do have to say, though, the more people who read your blog, the more people find Jesus by way of NewSpring.
JD. I’m praying for you. I have been out in the wastelands with my Christianity until a month or so ago when I found your blog. Since then I have had a thirst for the word that is unparalleled (just so that I can provide an argument to what I believe and voice my opinions here.)!!!!!! I was once friends with JM and am truly surprised at these actions. I had thought him to grow up from this. Good luck with everything and I have never seen Newspring in such a light. My only hope (though I believe the story you present) is that there are some things that are misconstrued or something…. as you said in your post….I wish that could be the worst I could think of. Unfortunatley, it seems that people agree with JM.
One person I have seen commented on a status says:
“Hey Man I am behind you 100% you were defending the Church .Maybe in a not so popular method.But I am with you Brother. WE all get over Zealous and make impulsive mistakes. F U them if they cant take a joke.”
Apparently this is what they at Newspring call “defending the church.” If so, I am worried for all of us that disagree.
Candi,
I’m going to take a note from this website and ask a few questions (though I’m certain as he has done in the past that JD can defend himself):
1. What classifies these posts as trying to “destroy others”? Many times JD takes arguments made by PN and fellow “pastors” at NS and provides Biblical proof as to why they are wrong? Often times there are many dissenters to JD’s opinion.
2. I’ve read much about the Gospel on here. Have you taken the time to read, or are you simply attacking JD on his issues with NS?
3. He does not give Christians a bad name…. in face, he gives them a much better name than I have received from my experiences with NS. I have fervor now for the Word that I didn’t have before. I want to read the verses and find out what they mean. I don’t take things at face value most of the time…. JD has helped me learn how to dig and look for answers instead of just accepting them.
4. “I attend Newspring.” You didn’t have to say that… it was obvious. Why did you say this? I thought you guys were supposed to ignore bloggers, etc.?
5. There are several places on this website describing the attitude of “if this weren’t the right thing, why are we getting attacked so much.” You should read them. They much more biblically lean towards the attitude that JD has presented as to what PN says…. You call JD the devil… that’s a bold statement…. care to back it up? Biblically?
repent jd you have managed to pull so many good people into that pit of misery with you. God reads your heart and i’m pretty sure He is not happy with what He see right now. people that don’t know the saving knowledge and grace of Christ certain wouldn’t want to if they read your blog. this grieves my heart and i know it grieves the heart of God. we are the only example that this lost world may every know. may the meditations of our minds and the thoughts of our hearts be pure in His site not our own. we can make anything seem right.
i don’t normally read your blog and i would bet perry nobel doesn’t either. i would also bet perry had no knowledge of what was going on. ns is a big church. perry nobel can’t oversee every employee. Christ followers are responsible for their own lives and the choices they make daily. my family prays for you today. may you make good choices. we pray for the nobel family daily. may they be protected from people like you. repent and know God’s forgiveness.
Man, what a trial. My heart just weeps for you and your family, Dr. Duncan. No one should have to go through that kind of pain.
The only thing I would say, is that this group-including “pastor” Perry-is that they have shown their true colors and your description of them as brothers in Christ is wrong. Incredibly loving of you to treat them that way for so long, but the truth has come to light. They are not Christians. No one could be Christian and do the things they have done. God bless you.
Dr D–thank you for having the courage to expose something for what it really is. I would have thought PN would have the manup to meet you and apologize, but it is obvious that he doesn’t have a man card. As for charges, have you talked to the federal folks? The twitter and blog cross state lines which now make it a felony.
You are truly a psychopath. You claim to be a Christian. I don’t believe it says anywhere in the Bible that you are to spend all your time and energy trying to destroy others. Do you not ever tell anyone about the Gospel? It’s idiots like you who give Christians a bad name and cause nonbelievers to stay far away from church. I attend NewSpring. We are obviously doing God work. Otherise, we would not be experiencing such a strong attack from Satan (James Duncan). God will deal with you for trying to crucify His people. You are a pitiful excuse for a human being. I do have to say, though, the more people who read your blog, the more people find Jesus by way of NewSpring.
1. Do you agree that the things done by people associated with NS against this psychopath were right?
2. Do you do anything besides tell other people about the gospel? Is your tv watching, mall shopping, pedicure receiving, novel reading, yahtzee playing, or whatever you do more important than sharing the gospel? Unless all your spare time is spent sharing the gospel with other people, it’s kind of hypocritical to complain that someone else doesn’t spend all his sharing the gospel.
3. Is the fact that someone is criticizing a church validation that that church is doing God’s work? Maybe the Jehovah’s Witnesses and LDS are doing God’s work, too. They get lots of (justified) criticism. (I guess Peter was doing God’s work when Paul criticized him for hypocrisy with the gentile believers, too.)
4. I regularly disagree with James Duncan. But I’m pretty sure he isn’t Satan.
5. I’m confused how more people find Jesus via NS by reading this blog, since you also said “it’s idiots like you who give Christians a bad name and cause nonbelievers to stay far away from church.”
I hope the official NS response is better reasoned than this one. I don’t think what happened to James Duncan is necessarily an indictment against NS; after all, the main culprit was a low-level employee who wasn’t a church leader. If what James Duncan says is true (and I’m not suggesting it isn’t, I just haven’t heard the other side if there is one), NS had, at a minimum, a massive communication breakdown in the leadership. But I certainly don’t think PN would have condoned the outrageous conduct had he known.
Now that all this has come to light, PN should condemn in no uncertain terms the appalling conduct by those that targeted James Duncan. Anything less will be an invitation of NS devotees like Candi to hold firm to their belief that anyone who disagrees with NS or PN on anything is the enemy, which is the very reason the culprits in this case felt justified in engaging in conduct which they no doubt regret in hindsight.
None of us should think so highly of ourselves that we believe any criticism is unfounded. Every church is comprised of imperfect people who are (hopefully) serving a perfect God. We should be iron sharpening iron instead of being content as dull blades.
I have for quite a while questioned the methodology and culture of arrogance of NS. I have had concerns about the lack of clear, correct exegesis of Biblical texts by PN, but what is so sad is that I find myself not being to terribly surprised by the actions of NS staffers fellow travelers as depicted in the above post. I think, too, that NS can tend create disciples such as commenter Candi with her ironic, shrill and ugly diatribe. I’ve seen such in other conversations. I hope and pray for vindication and closure for Mr. Duncan. NS is not the victim, but the perpetrator. NS seems to continue the tradition of the Spanish Inquisition. I have been quite critical of NS in the past, but always with the view that their intentions are good. I tended to eschew the label of ‘cult’, but if they progress in their trajectory, the will give Scientology a run for the money in their suppression of dissent.
Wow, I was expecting something bad, but that sounds horrible! I know I’d be beyond upset if someone did that to me and my family. I am confused about one part…I thought you said Travis Dickson sent you the pornographic emails and magazines subscriptions, so why would the other guy be accountable when it comes to pressing charges? I’m guessing it’s a mistake, but I just wanted clarification. It sounds as if you went about trying to resolve this by instructions given in the Bible, and I applaud you for that.
[JD: Thank you Joelq. Yes, that was an error, which I've corrected in the story. My apologies to Elgin on that one.]
@ Candi: You are the prime example of what James Duncan is saying here. Perry’s constant characterization of his critics as unsaved enemies on the side of Satan has obviously rubbed off on you.
If you can’t look at the detailed case that James Duncan has laid out here and see the NS leadership for what it is, then perhaps you are the psychopath?
And, may I say what a Godly, classy woman that Mrs. Duncan appears to be in the way she handled the unthinkable hurt piled upon her by fellow Christians.
What are we dealing with here?? The “Christian mafia”???
Wow – that is an incredible story.
Know that I am praying for you and your family.
For folks that are NS attenders/members: Although it may be hard for you to believe, the leaders at NS are not perfect. They do sin. Our only hope is not the imperfect church, but Jesus Christ. Put your faith in Him, not any church/pastor.
Well spoken Josh. I agree with you 100%. This is why I like this website so much. The opinions are varied (not everyone who posts here agrees with JD) and they always give me a reason to go digging into the word. I agree, I can’t believe that PN had much knowledge of this, I’m of the opinion that there was a massive breakdown in communication (which in the corporate world is a tell-tale sign that things have gotten too large and your infrastructure is insufficient for what you’re doing.)
I see all these people condemning JD for no reason other than he disagrees with NS and puts out his Biblical methodology of why he doesn’t agree. Is this not a very fundamental cult ideology? If you don’t agree, then you’re wrong. It seems here, that it’s OK to attack you if you disagree. Isn’t that the way that the extremist Muslims believe? (I’m very aware that not all Muslims think this way.) I’m not trying to lump all NSers together, but of the statements I see, they are condemning JD because he disagrees with PN…. not because his theology is different.
Duncan, I’m sorry to hear about the terrible things said about you and your family by these individuals. It’s too bad you couldn’t press charges on the main culprit.
And Josh, thanks for the reasoned response. I was beginning to think that everyone who comments either thinks Duncan is Satan, or Noble is an unbeliever.
Having been through extreme ugliness in the church, this whole debacle brings back some very unpleasant memories.
A few observations:
1- Both JD & Newspring and their leadership are failed human beings. One side does not have a corner on the truth or has more favor with God than the other.
2- Mediation. Finding an impartial third party would be helpful to sort out the veracity of the facts, what is rumor and who did what to whom.
3- The non-stop attacks, critiques and back and forth name calling between both bloggers and church members is pedantic and tiring. JD. Would Newspring be willing to employ an impartial third party to sort through this mess?
4- Members of Newspring would be best served by not posting ugly comments. No one likes it when their leader (leadership is accused) but some common sense would be helpful.
“Now that all this has come to light, PN should condemn in no uncertain terms the appalling conduct by those that targeted James Duncan. Anything less will be an invitation of NS devotees like Candi to hold firm to their belief that anyone who disagrees with NS or PN on anything is the enemy, which is the very reason the culprits in this case felt justified in engaging in conduct which they no doubt regret in hindsight.”
Very true, true indeed. This is the solution to the problem. This battle that Perry Noble has started with his “critics” has led to this unfortunate situation. TRULY UNBELIEVABLE. This “I got your back” mentality has no place in the church. I hope PN repents of this, I do believe God has called PN, but this stuff isn’t part of it.
If this is true (and I am not saying you are lying because it looks truthful to me) then I am extremely sorry for everything that happened to you family. I am a regular attender of Newspring and had no idea any of this was going on. I would like to say, however, that while I see several individuals who were truly involved, I do wonder if Perry knew most of what was going on. You never mention that he was involved in any way, just that he most likely knew and didn’t do anything about it. With so many people at Newspring and within the church’s leadership, it would really surpise me if he knew the full extent of everything that happened and I truly believe he would never had condoned such behavior. Further, you mention that he demonizes his critics. While that may be true, I, personally, have never witnessed him saying anything more than telling us to ignore the critics and treat everyone kindly. I pray fervently for his sake (if he was more involved) as well as the others involved that they realizes what this behavior has done not just to your family but to the members and attenders of Newspring as well. Remember, God will hold everyone accountable for their actions! As for Perry’s teachings, though, I have always backed up his lessons with the Word of God and have not found any inconsistencies. I have a learned a lot there and will continue to attend because we can not hold everyone in the church accountable for what some extremely confused and un-Christianlike people did. I will, however, also be looking for new leadership and pay a little more attention to what that leadership is doing so that if something like this occurs again I will have full knowledge of it and be able to stand up as a Christian and ensure that it is stopped immediately and those involved are removed from service. I pray that God will help resolve the situation further and that those in the leadership that did participate will be removed from their positions. We obviously can’t have a God blessed, worshipful church with our leadership acting in such a manner.
I am praying for your family and hope that all will be well with you and them in the future. It saddens me that anyone who would claim to be a Christian would participate in such filth…especially while in a leadership position in the church. Further, it saddens me even more that this would occur at my church where I have grown so much as a Christian and seen some wonderful things happen. Once again, while I can not speak for the offenders, I, myself, am so very sorry that your family would have to endure all that. While I disagree with a lot of the stuff you have written, no one should ever be treated that way. I wouldn’t wish some of that stuff on some of my worst enemies. Thank you for explaining your side of the story. I hope your wife was not too hurt by the revelations and that she is able to find peace during this time. I will be praying for your entire family. God bless!
Amen, Josh! I couldn’t have said it better myself. Although, I did try to some of that when I wrote my comment. I agree wholeheartedly with your post.
I typically don’t read the comments section so this is an exception. Do you normally get such ad hominem attacks in your comments? I can’t believe that after dealing with something like this you are still have people hurl such hatred your way. Sara is right, you are dealing with some sort of “mafia”. This is almost cultish type behavior.
Stay Strong brother.
@ Melanie:
Just curious, since you say you are appalled at the goings-on, especially on the leadership level, do still plan to support those leaders by your presence at their church and through your tithes?
I assume a lot of NS members are going to have the same reaction that you had. But, my question is: What are you (and the others) going to do about it?
Seems to me, the story has now been aired on both sides with both parties involved. Legal representation and the authorities have been involved. I think that this is not something to be tried in the court of public opinion at this point. The involved parties should continue to pursue the avenues, both biblical and legal, available to them. The rest of us should pray for both parties (that God would be in the middle and healing, justice, and restoration would take place . We need to keep our opinions, complaints, and “picking sides” to ourselves. All of the bickering by those of us that are not directly involved only serves to continue the destruction being done to people on all sides of the issue.
JD’s fears for his safety are legit.
He did not point this out in the story above, but Josh Maxwell and Travis Dickson have an infatuation for MMA (Mixed Martial Arts)Fighting. They are obsessed with violence.
Check out Travis Dickson’s Facebook page if you do not believe me.
I can not beleive the conversation between Maxwell and Duffey:
Maxwell: On my way to BTFOJD
Duffey: @mrmalph is one of my most favorite people… Got lots of rage & I like that!
For those of you who do not know what “BTFOJD” means…let me translate…it means “Beat the F**K out of James Duncan”
Shortly after, Shane Duffey commended Maxwell and “love his rage”.
How is JD a “pyschopath” for attempting to protect his family from people who are obsessed with violence and made physical threats to him? NS leadership (Shane Duffey) did not care!!!
Mr. Duncan I would see about getting an better attorney….there are charges that could be filed, including assualt, unlawful use of a telephone, slander, etc.
” We need to keep our opinions, complaints, and “picking sides” to ourselves”
as Scott Hobbs airs his opinion. Kinda of like “ignore the bloggers” while reading every word they say.
Praying for all those involved…may God draw each person, on all sides, closer to Himself, so that each may better reflect Christ in our purpose as image-bearers.
[...] Read the rest of James Duncan’s account here. [...]
Why would NS contact their insurance company? You don’t call an insurance company with a claim unless there’s something to claim. The statement they released yesterday must contain a lie or two.
Several comments have said something like: Perry could not have known about this behavior. If he did, he would not condone it.
Well… If you listen to Perry for more than 3 sermons, he will mention critics, question their faith, and insult them. Remember, he recounted an episode at a restaurant wanting to go confront – violently – a female he heard, since he didn’t like what she was saying (this is how to treat critics). He establishes how to treat critics.
Also, according to his account of things, JDuncan contacted NS in the summer seeking to meet with Perry about harassment. Response? None. He didn’t want to stop it. He implicitly allowed it to continue.
And according to the account, NS had an influence on the adoption. The statement released yesterday cannot be entirely true.
Whatever Perry knew, when he knew it and what he did to stop it – ultimately – falls on him. He wants to be the man in charge, unless of course bad things are happening. All of a sudden, he’s not as in charge as he wants to make it. And his staff is reckless and dangerous, and he condones it, because he allows it.
JDuncan, will you release the police reports (or link to them)?
Dr. Duncan,
I want to apologize for any privately or publicly held animosity or unjustified criticism I’ve directed towards you in the past. I truly believe you are a good man. I have the utmost respect for standing up for what you believe is right (or wrong in this case).
I will admit that at times, reading your blog has been very disheartening. While not entirely to blame, some of your posts have contributed to my growing disgust towards Christians (including myself) and our failure to lead the lives we are called (which I know is not your intention). I believe that several others experience similar reactions but are unable to discern your actions as concern for our churches’ behavior–Rather, they write them off as you being some sort of disgruntled, bitter, old man trying to tear down a ‘successful’ church that you don’t necessarily agree with all of the time (which, I admit, was my initial impression of you).
Having been on both sides of the spectrum, having attended New Spring for 6 years (and occasionally still visiting with friends), having witnessed the attitudes, egos, and hypocrisies of so many leaders and members, I can honestly say that this story is of little surprise to me. Just playing a few pick up games with some church leaders in my final weeks of attending there revealed a lot to me about the conditions of some of their hearts.
My heart goes out to you and your family. I pray that it would be God’s will for you to adopt a child whom enriches your life. I pray that they would have great admiration for you and your wife and I would hope that they stands up for what they believe in the way you do.
My heart goes out to my former church, it’s members and especially it’s leaders. I know several of the people whom you have spoke of personally. I admire most of them and their passion for spreading the gospel, however several need to deflate their egos. I know, from experience, that this will most likely not happen anytime soon because arrogance, sadly, is accepted and often times encouraged within those doors (the main reason I chose to leave).
Thank you for sharing your story.
You’re in my thoughts and prayers.
Best of luck & God bless,
Robert Grumbles
NS seems lore of a cult than anything else, with what has been happening. No decent Christian would allow such vileness, especially a leader as PN. Makes me thankful to be in a church which preaches the truth and defends such, and God’s love is truly evident.
An incredible story. I will pray for you and your wife.
Alot of thoughts are going through me right now but prayer is in order before I comment any futher. JD, if you are being truthful, I truly am sorry for the threats made towards your family and yourself. That wasnt my thought pattern about an hour ago when thoughts were going through me that I stopped as quickly as they started. I will read, pray, read, pray and comment whenever I feel the time is right.
To William Price,
I have thought that NS might hold some cultish tendencies for a while before I found this website…. now I think that even more. I have to say that after reading this post and seeing people come to blinding defense for no reason other than JD disagrees with NS that it may be worse than I had previously feared.
My opinion is this:
You have a corporation with NS (as PN often refers to it himself.) When your communication with your lower staff breaks down at this level you have several problems. One being that your leader no longer has his hands on every facet of his Church. Secondly, you’re so high up that you don’t know what’s happening below you. What this says to me is that 1.) your Church is too big for you or 2.) You’re not a good enough leader to handle this (or the leaders below you aren’t credible enough to nip it before it gets out of hand.)
Whichever it may be is up to you to decide, but if it were me, and I truly didn’t know that this was happening, I would be having serious thoughts of a reconstruction or reorganization of what (and who) I had around me.
If your accounts are all true and honest, then I am truelly sorry for what you and your family have went through. Although I don’t condone any of the actions that Newspring staff or volunteers have alledgedly done to you, I do have one comment. I am a Christian that loves Jesus, and I believe that God is the only rightous judge. Although it is in no way an excuse for their actions, I do believe that your blog is very offensive and critical as a whole. Why would you waste time attacking people? When you judge their heart and motives you are wrong. God will have the final say and if they are doing and have done the things you accuse them of, one day they will answer to a Rightous and Holy Judge. God doesn’t need our assistance in judging the hearts of men.
I pray that you and your family find peace.
Some of the comments say things like: “If you are being truthful, then….”
Well, if JD isn’t being truthful he’s about to get the pants sued off of him…. Naming names and identifying these criminal activities in this forum, opens him up to a variety of legal problems, which will illicit a public and legal response from NS.
Unless of course, he’s true and relying on police reports as purported.
He’s either being truthful or he’s deranged. Which one seems more plausible?
I dont know where to begin. Fist, I will say, that depending when during the summer you tried to reach Noble, he may not have been in the office, He takes the whole month of june off and spends time with his family to refresh himself. During these times he doesnt not answer email or calls or deal with church business. So the reason you may not have heard back from him specifically is bc he was not around to answer you.
There is alot to process here. And I am still working it out. But, I do not see the need to go after the church as a whole or Noble. They did not partake in this, you yourself said that most staff members did not know the twiter was run by a staff person, and was Noble or any other leaders following this twitter account? If not, then I see no fault but by those who did follow it or know what was going on. I believe the church os not the correct thing to be going after, the men who did this are the ones you need to go after, and if that can’t happen, then you should seek an apology from them, not Noble or the church. I understand your wanting to, but thats not the correct course.
I also must mention that although they might have brought up money first, you did not have to give them a number nor want money.
I do want to say that I am sorry for what has happened. Its a sad situation on both sides and I hope to see a happy ending in some form. I am still processing both sides and may have more to add as I think about it. Again, sorry for what has happened to you and your family.
Please, don’t use the passage in Matthew to put your diatribe on God. Does the passage in Matthew talk about how to handle a brother who has sinned against you? Yes. Does that mean that you have to handle every situation in this manner? Nope. You could have looked like the bigger man here, by turning the other cheek and just offering forgiveness and moving on. Doing the right thing and being right aren’t always the same thing. In all of your “right-ness” you can still be wrong. I figured you couldn’t resist airing this. Integrity isn’t about what we do or don’t do, it’s about why we do or don’t do those things. Stop looking for a way to put this website and all your work on God. Check your motives, it’s not His mess.
For everyone else reading this, please consider one thing. Sometimes and especially in situations like this, the truth often lies in between two conflicting opinions.
Here’s what I know about being in ministry. Time after time, situations like this unfold and are handled by both parties, imperfectly and that causes hurt. Usually, the non-church party takes it too far and forces the church’s hand. In most cases there is an underlying truth or background to the story that is known by both parties, that would ruin the individual if the church released it. One word and boom, it would be all over and the church could put an end to it. But church’s aren’t at liberty to air in public what they know privately about an individual because it would wreck their world. So when they’re hand is pushed and they have to react in some way publicly, it often seems incomplete and insincere. My guess is Mr Duncan should be very happy the church in this case didn’t “let it ALL out”. Not saying that’s the case here, but statistics are on the side of my argument.
Your medicine to PN: “Words mean things, and meaningful words often result in real-world actions.” Dude, is that a lesson learned or just something you’d like for him to experience? Man, you already lost an adoption from this stupid site. I don’t imagine you are a hateful person, but the tone and consistency of your posts make you appear to be hateful, and it cost you. Maybe it’s time to shut it down? I’m not saying the work isn’t important, but man is it causing more good than bad? Is what the staff member from NS did wrong? Of course. Would it have happened if you didn’t have this site? No. Seriously, it’s so obvious. Shut this place down and move on with your life. Is it worth it, just to demonstrate how right you are week in and week out? Seriously, shut down the computer and go spend some time with the kids and wife. Enjoy the family you do have. Policing the church has to be a time consuming role. I say, hang it up and go hit the trampoline with the kiddos.
Thanks for ‘fessing up on the money ask. I’m curious. You asked rhetorically if $50 was the price we would ask if our wife and kids were insulted. I ask, would $10m have healed the hurt? The key to overcoming hurt is forgiveness. And you could have done that already. And you’re obligated to, whether NS ever asks for it or apologizes to you. Your dispute resolution passage in Matthew isn’t a precursor to you offering forgiveness. Try reading the whole book of Matthew:
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
Your obligation is clear at this point. Let’s hear your apology for any wrong-doing and hear you offer some forgiveness. Because based on the comments here, your actions have hurt people. And you don’t get to tie that back to anything NS or PN did to you. That’s on you.
The money remains the most fascinating part of this. At first it seemed by the NS statement that your beliefs were for sale ($3m to go away) but now it seems worse than that. Now it seems that your family is for sale. Money to overcome hurt and emotional damage to your wife and kids? Do me one favor, don’t raise your kids believing that kind of nonsense. They’ll make terrible spouses. You act like you had no choice with this money. When a lawyer asks you how much to go away, you say “$0″. Because this isn’t about money, this is about my family and what I believe.
How do you reconcile these 2 statements from you:
1. God knew before this baby was conceived that he would be a Wilson, not a Duncan. We’re at peace with that. (this is in the context of not being upset with the parents who got the baby)
2. We lost a baby. That’s an emotional scar that will last for the rest of our lives. Compensating folk for emotional costs is not completely unheard of. (this is in the context of why you asked for a windfall of money)
You seem like a guy that wants to play the victim, but your own words convict you. Are you at peace or did you need money to be at peace. Maybe there are stages of peace. I wonder what $10k in peace looks like. Truly “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks”. What’s in you, what’s at your core has come out in this instance. You aren’t who you appear to be in your posts.
I don’t doubt some wrong-doing and mishandling by NS. But this continued charade of “what else was I to do, my hands were tied, I had to handle it this way” is nonsense. Yesterday could have been the end of this. It was in your hands. You could have saved the embarrassment for your family (your quote not mine). What kind of dad and husband does this? I’ll tell you what kind. A self-righteous, prideful man that would rather make an example of another Christian rather than be an example to other Christians. A man who loves himself more than his family. A man who still has the power to shut this all down and let it go away. You wont’. You can’t. Because in the end you’re like my toddler “but he did this to me first”.
You’ve got to move on with life. No matter how NS does or doesn’t respond. It’s in your hands. You can’t blame anyone but yourself for ALL of this. It’s all your fault. It all started with you. Just like all of my problems started with me. I’m the one constant in all of my problems. You have to change if you want a better future for your family.
Later,
B
Tommy,
The same goes for Newspring, if they aren’t being truthful then there is a liability on their side as well and it wouldn’t help their case either.
[...] up, the church giant Newspring issued an announcement yesterday, which was followed this morning by Dr. James Duncan’s reply. You can read them and they can speak for [...]
This is a Christian church? It sounds like the mafia. I totally and completely believe what this post says. The cult of personality in these crackpot, cool “churches” is truly evil. Perry Noble has been bringing shame on the cause of Christ publicly with his blasphemous and ungodly antics in the name of drawing a crowd. Now we know what happens privately when his critics are bold enough to say something about the ungodly and sinful nature of churches like NewSpring. Perry Noble, consider yourself outed for what you really are. Thank you, James, for having the courage to right this. God help us when this is how Christians behave. Grave, total disobedience to Christ.
I love Ben’s stance: since it’s causing you hardship and trouble then you should just give it up. I’m very thankful that Jesus didn’t take this philosophy. “Dad, these guys down here REALLY don’t like me…. it must be my fault for preaching that I’m the savior of the world…. I guess I’ll just go home and let them rot.”
This website has taught me a lot (not only from the showing of why some of what NS is doing is wrong), but also the articles on Baptism etc. that stem from them. I believe that if JD thinks what he is doing is right and it is (I believe he references our duty as Christians to question those who offer a misguided attempt at teaching believers) then giving up is just what NS wants him to do. Why would they want people to know facts that prove them wrong.
I am truly sorry for all that has happened to you and your family Dr. Duncan. I applaud you for the dignity you used in this situation. As some of the comments on here have already shown dignity is a hard thing to find in a person. I’m behind you and praying for you and your family.
After reading some of these posts-like Seth’s about contacting Perry, all I can say, is this: A real pastor and Christian would not have needed to be contacted. Perry well knew what was going on-he fired one of the involved parties and let the volunteers go. He should have been the man and contacted Dr Duncan and begged his forgiveness in the first place. No pastor should have ever let such terrorism begin, much less continue.
@ Ben
so you think that, “Yesterday could have been the end of this. It was in your hands.”
(from NS’s statement) “NewSpring Church will not be subjected to hollow and exaggerated threats by critics of the Church seeking outrageous sums of money”
you don’t think there needed to be some clarification from JDuncan on an issue like that? or do you think people would not have been able to connect the dots from their statement that it was JDuncan and this blog they were talking about? i tend to believe they did force his hand according this entry. NS forced JDuncan to defend himself, otherwise the thousands of attendees to NS would just assume NS is right and has no blame in this matter at all.
watching that video from PN about how they address critics is particularly frightening. (addressing the Maxwell situation) “he went over the line and confessed some stuff that he did. He said some stuff that he shouldn’t have said.” that sounds like he was an 8 year old who cussed in front of his parents, and it did not accurately portray the gravity of the malicious tweets from Maxwell, which JDuncan has clearly displayed today.
a situation like this needs open discussion, but according to JDuncan, all attempts at discussion with NS were turned down until lawyers were involved. judging by many reactions from NS followers, open discussion is something that isn’t appreciated. they would rather call JDuncan a “psychopath” and blindly follow the NS statement. like what has been said before on this site, this all stems from PN’s view on his critics as “so-called Christians.” what sort of message is that to his congregation? ignore the critics, they’re not really Christians, you’re really Christians because you believe what i’m telling you. the claims that NS is more of a cult than a church gain more truth with messages like that. blindly follow us, ignore what others say about us, we’re right and they’re wrong. that is a message i would rather not hear from a pastor on sunday morning.
Dr. Duncan
I know we don’t see eye to eye on everything in the world [JD: We don't?], but it makes me disgusted that you have had to deal with this.
there are lines that should never be crossed by people and you have been violated and have handled it better than most. a blog and criticism is not something to get mad at, and makes me sick that a “church” that i have attending was behind alot of this, and cant take criticism with stride and grace, or more so to look and see if there was a place for growth in the criticism. Insteed they just broke down to mobster like actions in stalking your family. this makes me mad. You and your family are in my prayers.
If you wanna attack, attack the individuals not the Church or pastor. The church should not even have been mentioned in this awful case.
[...] But this is fricking unbelievable. [...]
I just wanted to clarify that at least three of those people mentioned, the biggest of offenders, were dealt with and let go. It is not like Newspring totally ignored the situation. The other thing I wanted to clarify is that some of us may say things like “if this is true” but you must understand it is coming from those of us who have attended Newspring for years and have never seen anything like this happen. While I feel, personally, that there must be some truth to this (especially since we obviously let people go over it), if not all all true, I feel we must be careful of stating it as fact right away since we, as members and attenders were not there and have not heard the other side in regards to some of these issues. You can’t get mad at us for being a little skeptical or wanting to use careful words during this situation as none of us are going to be completely, 100% sure of what the whole story is since we were not involved in it personally. I just don’t think we should all assume one way or the other just yet since we do not know all the facts from both sides. I still quite unsure of how much Perry knew. He is extremely busy 24/7 which is why there are other staff members that handle some of these things. I do know that when it was confirmed that those three guys were involved they were immediately removed from their positions. If he did condone such behavior then he wouldn’t have fired them.
@ Sara
My prayer is that the truth comes out completely on both sides and God will reveal to us what should be done. Until then, I can not confidently make the right decision. In a church of thousands, there is obviously going to be people who are not true Christians or are not walking faithfully. It is basic statistics. However, if it is confirmed that people who have not been let go from their positions were, in fact, involved, then as a member and a Christian, I feel it would be my duty to go to the leaders in the church and ask that those people be removed from leadership positions. I can not speak for others in the church…only myself. What I can say is that I have attended Newspring for about 6 years now and, during that time, I have never heard anything said by Perry that has contradicted what is written in the Bible. I know this because I do not listen to someone speak without researching what they have said myself to ensure it is biblical. Also, during that time, I have never heard him speak of his critics in a way that I feel would give any of us permission to act in such a disgusting way. Finally, everyone must remember that Perry is only human as is every other person on this earth. He struggles with certain things more than others just like we all do. But he loves Jesus!
After watching him for 6 years you can just tell. He preaches Jesus all the time. I know people wonder how so many get saved (and if it is legitimate) and I can tell you that it is. I know many of the people who have gotten saved while attending, including my husband, and the one thing they all seem say about why the message got to them now is that Perry spoke to them on their level…from one sinner to another…and they realized that no one is perfect and that being a Christian and accepting God’s love and forgiveness does not mean they must be perfect. It means striving for what God would want you to be but it doesn’t mean you won’t fail at times. Most of these people attended churches growing up that were so legalistic that all it did was make them feel bad about themselves and consider Christians to be judgemental. Most even had pastors that acted as if they were perfect and everyone else was goign to hell. That is why Perry reaches so many. He speaks to them in their language as, like I said before, one sinner to another. They feel connected to him and feel they can learn from him because he doesn’t beat them down but encourages them to change there ways and live for God. I have never been as passionate in my walk with God until I started attending Newspring. A fire was lit inside me that I am certain will never die out again. This is another reason I don’t want to be too quick to judge without knowing everything on both sides.
James,
My prayers go out to you brother, it sickens my heart that the “evangelical” church has sunk so low that goat herders who show by their actions that they are not regenerated, can get behind a pulpit and act the way they do. Years ago Noble would have had his sorry arse booted down the road, but when you fill a church with goats, nobody even cares. I wonder if Noble reads his bible, and if he does, he obviously doesn’t do what it says. I pray that God will comfort and strengthen your family. Much grace to you brother.
I have no dog in this fight. I read this with sadness. Sadness that the internet has allowed parties on both sides to hurt the church. Sadness that a child is being bought. Sadness for you, the writer, that you can’t let this go. That you continue to hurt the church (not a group of believers but the whole body as I received this post off Facebook from someone in Texas)
I have followers on twitter, but I use my cellphone to tweet so I never see what others write unless I specifically log in and follow all the people I follow. Therefore, Jaysizzle could actually be innocent.
I pray for you that you will be able to let this whole awful year of 2009 and what your family has endured go. That you will be truthful with your wife about all details in the future so that you don’t have to wait until it is too late to share with her even if you think you are protecting her. And that Anderson, SC will heal from this.
This is indeed a sad state of affairs. Much to process through. I will pray for this whole situation. 2 things concern me as I have read rsponses.
1. It seems like many (both newspringers and non)think that being critical of Perry somehow in some way justifiies what has happened. Ipersonally think that what much hthat has been said on this blog is helpful. We need people speaking the truth according to God’s Word in a day when there is not much. Even if I did not agree, no amount of “criticism” would justify such sinful actions.
2. It seem slike some newspringers are more upset about critical thinking of their pastor than the deplorable actions that have happened.
Lastly, my encouragement is to continue to stand for biblical truth. many men have suffered greatly for doing so.
I have always thought of PN and his ilk to be like the lost boys in Peter Pan. Now they seem more like the boys in Lord of the Flies.
Truly outstanding. Honestly this entire debacle (and I sympathize deeply with you Mr. Duncan) reads like it is straight from a television drama. I am really struck beyond words at this situation. It is my hope that repentance might come to NewSpring. I am sorry you have had to be attacked this way Mr. Duncan.
– Trevor
JD, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.
Some thoughts and opinions….
1. I find it hard to believe that Perry didn’t have a clue about any of this. He IS NewSpring! He started it. He is the one with the “vision” and he is the one calling all the shots. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. I just have a hard time believing it considering some of his closest people and friends are named.
2. Could be wrong, but I wonder if Tony Morgan leaving NS had anything to do with this (maybe he found out and didn’t want to be a part of it?). Maybe, maybe not. Just a thought and find it interesting. Anybody know? [JD: TM left NS well before this.]
3. I think this is typical of the attitude of the culture at NS. If I was a member or an employee, I would demand to know the truth from Perry and his staff.
My little girl(10) and boy(8) just left to go see a strong man peform and give his testimony at a friend’s church. The friend is 10 and invited them to go.
My 14 year old wanted to go but felt a little embarrassed going with the youngsters. He decided to stay home with me and watch Bama-vs-UF and Clemson-vs-GT. We will be going to pick up chicken fingers from Zaxby’s in a few minutes. It’s kind of a tradition.
My wife and I we tried to go do some Christmas shopping with the kids and also to find a Christmas tree but my wife was recently diagnosed with MS. Symptons come and go but she began feeling dizzy and we had to cut the trip short. Poor girl was crying in Target because of how she felt but didn’t want to spoil our trip. Poor girl. She is a real trooper. I love her so. I bet you do to, if only for this moment.
Back to my 14 year old, he’s read the whole “Article” about what happened between Mr. Duncan and Newspring. I felt he should. He’s been kind of quiet since he read it. We used to go to Newspring and were very involved. We left recently because we just felt it wasn’t for us. That’s all. No theatrics. Even though I have my own blog, I never mentioned it.
I worry about my 14 year old. Right now, his religion is my religion but eventually he will test and prove what he believes and if he takes his eyes off Jesus(as we all do from time to time), Satan will run this sorry episode through his memory banks.
I see Satan in gleeful ecstacy(sp?)as he was able to manipulate both sides to this point of horrible witness for Christ. And do you know why? Because he could. Both sides didn’t give him footholds, they gave him staircases.
Going to head to Zaxby’s now. Yum. Tomorrow morning we will head to church and praise HIM but if my heart don’t change by then it will be a little heavy.
Oh and in some totally unrelated news, this weekend anywhere between 5 and 20 people will die in Anderson County. Most won’t know Jesus.
Joe
It is a peculiar dysfunction of the mind and spirit that hears extensive details of threats, abuse, and harassment, and chastises the victim, telling them they should just not talk about it, etc.
I hope some of these commenters are never in the position to counsel victims of physical abuse. Their spiritual Aspergers Syndrome is an affront to the Beatitudes.
—
James, praying for you and your family.
Ok so some people are saying you cant hold the church responsible…
YES YOU CAN!!!
hears the thing!
When some one acts like Maxwell did, it is a lot like a street solider in a gang…they do things to impress you, and if they get a response like “i love his rage” that is a green light to act.
and in a gang there is always the Don and boss,whatever you call it there is a leader. Perry is the leader and should apologize and step up and be a “MAN” that he so greatly preaches to his congregation.
so basically what im saying is the church is not a gang…it should not be treated as one and Perry should realize what he says affects lives of the ones he targets them at. there for he should apologize.
[...] Here is the entire account of the incident according to James Duncan - Read Here [...]
I am so sorry that this always comes down to one Christian tearing down another. I find that this situation is tearing at the heart of Jesus. I learned a long time ago that there is two sides to every story. Who is right I think was decided by law enforcement and should be stopped there. I am not taking sides with either side but I will say that the internet and blogging is helping to destroy the church. May all involved remember that a person that does something well a person will only tell one person but something bad and a person will tell ten people. Trust me this will go further than Anderson South Carolina and it will not be positive. Is this worth tearing down the whole community of Anderson, SC. May God be with all parties involved and I will be praying for all of them. As Christmas approaches I sent packages to two young men in our military (one in Iraq, one in Afganistan) to think this young men are risking their lives so we can sit and use the Internet for such needless things as this. May God be with us all.
How many conferences does Perry Noble speak at now? Why is he taking the time away from matters at his own church where HE is personally accountable for the sheep that he shepherds (Hebrews 13:17). It is obvious that Perry should not hop from city to city to make Perry Noble more famous within the church conference culture and the pastor celebrity which these conferences have created. Perry needs to stop traveling so much and tend to matters within HIS OWN CHURCH.
He is responsible for EVERY employee at NS. He creates the culture..he sets the vision and tone for the church. Perry Noble seems to want to be the Mark Driscoll of the southeast right down to borrowing his famous “punch you in the throat” phrase from MD. PN hires all of these young guys and has a college frat like atmosphere. PN ALWAYS wails on his critics while saying he never pays attention to them. PN “mentored” Gary Lamb” and we see how that turned out.
This speaks to the larger issue of church planting now. Church Planting is the current “fad” among young evangelicals now where they look at it as a short cut to being a lead pastor without learning and being mentored in a church by godly, wise senior pastors. Even Perry minimizes formal seminary by maturely calling it cemetery. What is missing in these guys like Perry that are so immersed in pop culture is a strive for holiness. This episode speaks clearly to that point.
AND you have to wonder if some of these NS “staff” involved in this shameful mess are even saved to begin with. Porn, harassment, fraud, etc.
Bottom line is PN IS accountable for his staff. He needs to be on top of what they are doing. Like i said, if he wasnt busy trying to be famous then maybe he would have been there more to mentor these staff members and even meet with Mr Duncan.
I am reading alot of comments that essentially state that no one should critize NS or Perry Noble because “lives are being changed, marriages are being restored, and children are getting their dads back.”
Just a quick reminder for some about the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith:
Perry has never saved anyone…and neither has Newspring. Jesus changes lives…Jesus restores marriages…Jesus gets children their dads back.
Here is the real “SCOREBOARD”…..Jesus is ALL!!!
Stop the insanity!! Forgive one another as you have been forgiven. When you have a conflict approach your brother in Christ with that conflict first in private. Grown men, Godly men, representing Christ…both of your behaviors are disgusting! It does not matter what either side thinks here…when one member of the body of Christ has been harmed, the whole body has been harmed. That body does not just consist of New Spring, Anderson or even the USA. It is all of us as believers on the entire Earth. Let me ask you guys something, do you really believe in God or are you your own God? The two of you seem to be putting your interest ahead of Christ. Trust me, he does not need your defense. Jesus Christ can fight his battles alone, so put down your weapons and obey his commands: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and love your neighbor as yourself. Are you doing this Duncan? Are you loving Perry as you love yourself? Are you, Perry, loving Duncan, as you love yourself? If not, you are both hypocrites and the pulpit has become your weapon, and it was never designed to defend you. You are both an abomination to all Christians and future believers and you will be both held accountable for the children you are and have led astray through your action and non action. WE are the whole body, not you Duncan or you Perry, every Christian. Worship the creator not the creation. Perry is the creation. He has more than once asked NewSpring to worship God, not him. Perry, step up and stop this. Publicly apologize to this man and then reassure your congregation. Act as Christ would here and you will glorify our Lord and Savior. I love you Duncan, I love you Perry, I love Jesus Christ. Stop this…now. God Come Now!
Sad, it is just sad that all this had to transpire.
But what’s worse is the church allowing, possibly even condoning it. It’s all fun and games until the cops come knocking. Seem to have deflated their fun and caused them call out the lawyers… And why a lawyer from Texas? Aren’t there good lawyers in South Carolina?
JD, I’ve said several prayers for you today. I also emailed NS church with my comment on their “posting.”
What transpired was way overboard and wrong! It should not have been allowed and rather than defended I think Perry and staff have some serious public repenting and apologizing to do. But I don’t think that is going to happen.
Heck a simple phone call of apology I imagine would go a long way to resolving some of this. But the leader of the church is burying his head in the sand so he can deny everything.
I have read the NewSpring account and now this account in much more detail. No one should be allowed to be harrassed and I would seriously consider much of this as defamation of character. I left for what I considered to be extreme arrogance and mismanagement of 9Million in Tithes and Offerings. It is a house of cards that can only be saved with a new, more mature and experienced management.
This is awful. My sympathies and prayers go out to you and your family. I live 45 min away from Newspring, and have friends that go to AU and in turn go there for church. If this is seriously how that pastor handles his flock, that is pitiful. It just shows how much focus is going on the reputation of these people and not on The Glory of God. I hope that the Lord blesses you in this trial. I just want to leave you with these verses from James 1 and hope that you will meditate on them in your times of trial
2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
9 Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation,
10 and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass he will pass away.
11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.
(James 1:2-12)
Scott Hobbs comments are a mystery to me. He says:
“Seems to me, the story has now been aired on both sides with both parties involved. Legal representation and the authorities have been involved. I think that this is not something to be tried in the court of public opinion at this point. The involved parties should continue to pursue the avenues, both biblical and legal, available to them. The rest of us should pray for both parties (that God would be in the middle and healing, justice, and restoration would take place . We need to keep our opinions, complaints, and “picking sides” to ourselves. All of the bickering by those of us that are not directly involved only serves to continue the destruction being done to people on all sides of the issue.”
Few things drive me nuts like those who engage in moral equivalency. His comment basically says no one can draw any conclusions based on the two sides.
Gracious man, NS isn’t interested in pursuing anything! They want this to go away. They certainly haven’t exercised Christian judgment in any of this, including their public response. Indeed, they painted JD and the problem rather than address their own very disturbing culture.
And JD is left with telling his story publicly and possibly suing NS. Personally I think he should get a good lawyer and go for broke. NS and PN aren’t going to learn anything any other way.
This is not new stuff with respect to how PN and NS respond to criticism. It’s been oging on for years. The difference is, as JD points out, it has now escalated to dangerous levels. And that escalation was predicted by many who saw the direction NS’s paranoia was headed.
there are so many assumptions in your blog, and through these comments. whatever – work it out. but by keeping the comments open, you are just allowing for more assumptions and more crap to be flung, wide open on the internet for anyone to see.
an outside opinion, i’m on the otherside of the country than you guys…newspring doesn’t appear flawless in this ordeal, but you also appear paranoid. threats aren’t cool, but the amount of time you have spent on voicing your opinion on people you don’t agree with (even before said threats) is not normal.
i’m truly sorry your wife and you didn’t get the baby you wanted to adopt. but honestly after reading through your blog i wonder when you would have had time to spend with that kid.
Mr. Duncan,
I am saddened by what you and your family have experienced. I do not know you, or the situation in detail, but after reading this I wanted to let you know that I am moved to pray for your family. It is especially sad that some would stoop so low as to attack a woman and children. Ministers are to be healers and helpers, those who stand in the gap to protect others, especially women and children. May the Lord give you and your family comfort in Christ Jesus.
Fred Greco
Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
jl
keeping comments open is precisely how a blog works. Closing off comments is paranoid and is an attempt at quieting dissent.
For examples of not allowing discussion, visit perry’s blog. His opinion is all that matters.
Also sounds alot like his church.
JL, that is quite a cold and callous comment to make about the failed adoption by the Duncans that they wouldnt have had time for a child. They already have one child. Just because Duncan keeps a blog doesnt mean that he he doesnt take time to raise his child. Its called making priorities. AND by your definition since Perry Noble blogs and twitters AND by the way travels around the country away from his wife and child then he must not have time for his child either. I think we can all see the fallacy of your position and your blatant attempt of redirecting and trying to paint Mr Duncan in a negative light which is precisely the MO of Noble and Newspring
Prayers for you and your family.
JL said “but the amount of time you have spent on voicing your opinion on people you don’t agree with (even before said threats) is not normal.”
Not if it’s true and it helps the Church of Jesus Christ in the long run. And BTW it doesn’t take a bunch of time to read what someone says and comment on it. This comment took me 2 minutes.
Sir, my heart goes out to your family! I am so sorry for the pain your family is going through! I have attended services in the past just to see what the big deal was, and I was not really impressed. I have never been one to “flock” with an over excited crowd. I hope that your family can move on and heal from this and honestly forget any of those people even exist. Please know that you are doing the right thing and even though you may not see redemption any time soon, you will one great day! I will continue to lift you up, daily, in prayer!
My heart is crushed after hearing this. I hope that you hold fast to your faith and pray for the redemption of this situation.
i’m reminded of something an old friend told me: “A man shows his character in nothing more than what he finds laughable.”
Dr. Duncan,
I have read through your account of these horrible things that you have experienced almost twice now and my heart is truly saddened. The fact that people are still attacking you is beyond ridiculous. Perry puts critics in the “enemy” zone, but if he truly followed the Word of God then he (and all others that oppose you that claim to be saved) should love you, James Duncan, an “enemy”, rather than attack you. Obviously, the people that have been antagonizing you need to reread some stuff in the Bible, particularly the “love your enemies” part.
Also, why are you being attacked for this public response? As you have written in this blog, you have contacted NS multiple times and in different ways in order to reconcile these issues PRIVATELY. Yet, they turned you away with a shrug of their shoulders. The fact that they haven’t even apologized in any shape or form is down right insulting. It says in the Word that issues of sin must be made public to the body of believers if they cannot be resolved privately. That is exactly what has happened here. I do not understand why people are attacking you for doing what the Bible calls for.
Lastly, it shouldn’t matter that you disagree with NS and they don’t like it. As the body of Christ, Newspring should have taken the high road. Instead, those individuals did everything in their power to stop you from simply stating your opinion. This is America and every single person that is a citizen of this country has the right to say whatever he or she pleases. Good or bad. This blog is a perfect example. The fact that these people involved tried to shut you up by using harassment, pornography, libelous remarks, ad hominem attacks and meddling of personal affairs (especially adoption), is some of the most juvenile, prideful, and un-Christ-like behavior I have ever heard of.
Undoubtedly, I am praying for you Dr. Duncan. But right now, I feel that I need to pray for NS even more. God help those people. They are spitting in the face of Christ.
That’s a disturbing story. From my vantage point way up in Canada NewSpring is to Christian brotherly love what Enron was to accounting. Disgraceful.
I want to post on here but I’m a single mother and I’m not sure if it’s safe to add my two cents for fear of what NS might do to me! You think I’m joking? Those thoughts went through my mind – however Dr. Duncan’s wife is my best friend. I have known her since we were teenagers – and I have known James from their first date – I was in their wedding and his wife and I were roommates. I have known about this terrible thing that has been taking place since this summer. James’ account is completely accurate – our heart broke when they were not able to bring their son home from the hospital and he was adopted to the NS pastor instead. I live in another state and came to stay with James’ wife when he went to New Zealand – this account is real and truthful. All along James and especially his wife have examined their motives, and have meticulously tried to follow God’s wisdom in dealing with conflict. They have been treated shamefully by the staff of NS – but still have forgiven them. When James wife realized that the information about the adoption would be public – she worried about the adopted parents of the child and wanted to make sure that they were not afraid that they had any ill will towards them. She especially wanted to make sure that this child knew how much they were loved and wanted and never would have to feel any shame or pain from this situation. These are real people – If anyone from NS every reads this post – I wish they would understand the full gravity of what they have done. James may disagree with your doctrine, but he would never attack your family or threaten you children. Because I can attest that these events are completely accurate, it is unbelievable to me that Perry Noble and his staff would further victimize this family in thier misleading press release. It’s a bit like saying, ya – the guy shouldn’t have raped that women – but did you she what she was wearing? Blaming the victim is never a smart move. I hope that people at NS will lovingly and rightly so demand transperancy from their leaders and will consider anything less a breech of covenant relationship. In regards to the money – it was never about money – James wanted nothing more than to meet with these guys and work it out. Now they have to move houses, upgrade security (have you seen some of the responses to this post?) and wait to be able to adopt again. They have lost financially, a sense of security, and their child. But more importantly unless this type of behavior has a consequence to it, it will continue – they are right to agree with the lawyer to discuss compensation – I know that lawyers can be down and dirty but to turn that around and for Perry Noble to act like they are greedily seeking compensation is deceitful and disgusting – especially after all that they’ve been through. Since NS people keep on pointing to the fruit of all the people who are changed as proof of their legitimacy – how come no one is concerned about the bad fruit that has been produced? From the hateful posts here and the people who perpetraited this harrassment and the leaders who encouraged and took part – THAT is the fruit of the leadership as well – it goes both ways.
Truly astounding and scary what these seeker sensitive (but believer cruel) churches will sink to sometimes.
If a church is so big that you can’t keep track of what your undershepherds are doing, it’s too big.
Prof James, your continuing relationship with Ben Milstead is truly remarkable. It is evidence of true grace from God working in you and your wife. I can only pray that Ben and those around him will see this and be truly humbled unto true repentance some day.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share this. I am sure it was an unbearable ordeal.
Tommy F – re:keeping comments open — not necessarily. Many people just post a blog as a running diary because they don’t feel they have the time or patience to moderate and that is ok with me. SO you just go to a christian discussion forum and link to that person’s blog post and discuss it there, that’s what I figure.
I am truely saddened that Duncan’s family has had to go through this. I have been at New Spring for 9 years and will not be going back. I talked to numerous others that will not be going back as well. The biggest problem is that you have people that are not even close to qualified to run New Spring. Jason Wilson came from a PLANT to all of the sudden the executive pastor of a huge church. Nobody in this church has any kind of experience. An experienced staff would have launched an all-out investigation and heads would have rolled. Moorehead and Duffy should be FIRED for not stopping Maxwell. If Perry knew about this, he should repent from the stage. Many people are sick of Perry noble’s in your face arrogance. All around…just a sad situation. Dr. Duncan, we pray for your strength during these difficult times.
I’ve been loosely following this blog for a little while now, and I just want to say how deeply grieved and saddened I am by the behavior of BOTH parties involved in this horrendous scandal. I am no fan of Newspring, nor Perry Noble, and I do actually appreciate those like the blog author, who stand up for truth, and point out error. However—and this is a major HOWEVER—no matter what truth needs defending, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. And badgering someone, and devoting nearly an entire blog to nitpicking someone’s every word and deed, is NOT the right way to go about defending the faith. Where is humility? Where is getting the beam out of one’s own eye before plucking the speck out of another’s? Where is the meekness of Christ? I do not see these traits on display very often in this blog.
I am in no way excusing the horrible things done to the author or his family—in fact I abhor what was done—but the author’s behavior and attitude haven’t been spotless either. There comes a time when one simply needs to let go. Stop trying to fight for one’s own reputation, stop suing, stop the lust for money, stop, stop, stop…stop totally besmirching the name of Christ. How this must make Him weep! It is only in repentance and humility on BOTH sides that any reconciliation can come about. We always need to assess our motives when pointing out another’s error. If we are doing it because their behavior genuinely grieves us, then we will not take offense if they slander us and treat us unjustly. Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord! Our attitude needs to be one of total humility. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
So, please. For the sake of the name of Christ, stop this nonsense. None of this is bringing Him any honor or glory. All it is doing is showing the world that Christians are no different than they are. Shameful. Absolutely shameful.
Since Perry won’t agree to meet with JDuncan PRIVATELY, and since we know Perry reads Twitter, perhaps we can petition Perry PUBLICALLY to meet with JDuncan. Go here to sign the twitter petition.
This sounds like good ole boy southern politics. The only thing that is missing is the tv commercials. Instead we have the blogs and twitters let’s find a ethics committee that can investigate both sides. Maybe afterwards we can impeach one or both of them. Will this end up in a civil suit? This will may make a good 49 hours segment. Is this what we really want? Does the state of South Carolina have enough embarrasment going on that we need to drag everyones dirty landry. In the seculare world they do not post how or why a person is terminated. Ask Anderson College if they twitter or blog about the last time they terminated someone. It is usually handled internally with little or no one knowing about it. On the other hand do they investigate cases of harrassment? Yes, and the party is found guilty they mediate the problem and resolve the problem. I have never known Michlin or BMW to make someone stand a give an account for the reason that someone was terminated. As I see it Perry Noble after he gained knowledge handled the problem by the termination, but I have never known a company to pay out half a million dollars for harrassment. Yes I belive some staff member was guilty as charge but Mr. Duncan lost his credability when he asked for such a large sum of money. Pastor P should put in guidelines and list the steps for discipline or possiblity of termination should this be done again.
The issue is really about Jesus Christ and His Gospel. It is He who is really being defamed by the behavior of the leadership at NewSpring. Let the matter be worked out publicly, now that they have rejected a private settlement. The church needs to be cleansed. The Gospel message humbles us. When leaders do not exhibit this quality, I doubt that they even understand the Gospel. And if they don’t understand the Gospel, they have no business in being leaders. You members at NewSpring, shame on you for supporting such leadership. We are each, individually, accountable to Christ for what we do here in promoting the Gospel. You members share in this guilt it you do nothing.
Here is a question I have wanted answered for some time. People say “pastor” Perry…. what makes PN a pastor? He has never gone to seminary, he has not been put forth by any body of the church. Please explain to me why anyone should refer to him as Pastor. I think that is a very serious title that requires some amount of effort to be put forth. Also, does it not bother anyone that goes to NS that your pastor has no Biblical training? Does it not bother you that he has nothing to show that he has studied to do what he is doing?
That’s like me being a head accountant with no accounting degree….. would flags not be raised in the normal business world?
James Duncan,
I can totally believe your story.
So, apparently Perry is a wolf. And he leads a pack of wolves, their fruit bearing the evidence, ie: their disgusting activities. One doesn’t gather grapes from thistles.
I really have a problem with the comments here from some that reveal the ignorance of the apostate nature of the visible ‘church’ of the day which is being overrun with wolves. Comments like the one from Patricia, who assumes that Perry the wolf is a true believer. I guess passages from the Bible like Act’s 20:25-32 are unknown by such commenter’s. No wonder the Perry Nobles of the world’s apostate churches get away with their disgusting fleshly deeds.
You will have the Lord as your comfort, and also prayer support from your real brethren, who are united with you in His Spirit. May you be vindicated within the law. I will pray most especially for God’s comfort toward you and your wife concerning the adoption issues. You have my sympathy. I know you know this but I need to say it, remember this also: Nothing shall separate you from the love of the Lord, which is the bottom line.
[...] comes the bombshell. Please read this post at Pajama Pages. It is rather long, but worth the read. I read it yesterday, and I am still [...]
Mr. Duncan,
While the things that have happened to your family are shocking & unacceptable, it’s interesting that you would stoop to such levels that seem to appal you. Turning this whole situation into a public affair has not only shown your true colors & intentions but also shown your lack of concern for the spiritual fallout that is to come for so many “baby christians” who are unsure of this whole “Christian, follow Jesus idea”. Are you at all concerned about the damage this will cause for so many people who will harden themselves to the idea of ever trusting God’s people again?! People have a way of lumping all Christians together just as you have lumped Pastor Noble into the group of perpatraitors just bc of his connection to them. Do I condone any of the actions from these men? Heck no! But neither do I condone yours.
My friend has always reigned me back in w/a great saying when I have been wronged by christians, churches, loved ones or enemies. She always says, “don’t get wrong in being right.” I tell u this not to judge you but rather to help. Keep your hands clean & your thoughts pure in the eyes of our Lord who will NOT allow someone to wrong His children & go unpunished. It’s obviously that this has consumed your life & thoughts & it will continue to until you stop meditating on it thru your blog, conversations, legalities & thoughts. Enough is enough.
Nothing good has come from this situation on either side. How long are you going to keep trying to wring more blood out of all the wounded?! Let it be over! You are fueling the fire with this blog which makes me wonder if you enjoy the attention & have any regard for you wife’s feelings of fear & security. Letting this be over does not in any way mean that what they did is ok bc its DEFINATELY not. But it will create an environment for you & your family to find peace. After, that’s what you’ve been after all along sincethis started, right? My heart goes out to your wife & child who are complete innocent bystanders in this nonsense that you seem to insist on reviving & providing life support for.
I am & will continue to pray for everyone involved & justice to all who have created this situation.
I do not attend Newspring, have never been there, have never heard him preach & do not follow him on twitter. My opinion is solely based on their announcement & your blog.
For all of the comment posters who will respond to my post, just know I will not respond back. I am not here to create a battlefield over words & opinions but rather to offer a plee to Mr. Duncan to let this be over. The ball is in his court & I’m sure his family is more important than the scoreboard.
Stay strong Dr. Duncan. This is not the conduct of a church or its employees so may God grant repentance and the forgiveness of sins to those that work at Newspring Church and knew of this situation.
This is exactly what Christ said would happen when one speaks up for the truth.
Brother,
This kind of darkness needs to be exposed. It is never easy and it usually is very painful. I am sure that you and your family are leaning on Christ to get through this. Too many christians would have let this go by because of the time and personal issues it would have caused them. Keep the faith. And, thank your for attempting to use proper christian redress in handling this disgusting situation.
You’ve responded to the slanderous statements that NewSpring put on their website.
It’s obvious that PN is being “protected” by his staff.
Repent, NewSpring, or the Lord’s hand of discipline will become crushing. Repent now by cleaning house of all the wolves you have allowed into the fold. Slaughter the wolves before they turn on the flock, and the Lord turns on you.
[...] http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3780 [...]
My Back ground: I belong to a Southern Baptist Church for over 60 years.
Now attend NewSpring Church on a simi-regularly
Fact: Through history the problems in the Churches have been caused by religious leaders and their ideas of “How Church Is Suppose to be Done”.
I have learned by serving on many committees in different churches that their is NO Prefect Church, the main reason is that we humans are involved.
In looking for a Church to attened I look for one thing,”Is What is the purpose of the church?”
I can honestly say that I have wittnessed over a 1000 people come to know Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savor and have seen lives changed,
All this comes from Perry Noble and other pastors at Newspring allowing The Holy Spirit speak through them.
Hears my comment: After reading all the blogs and etc. I only hear humans expressing themselves and I don’t think God can be pleased.
I know many preachers and not one is perfect, But if God has chosen them to be His servant, Who are we to criticize, We find in 2 Kings 23-24 where God allowed 2 bears to kill 42 kids for making fun of Elisha. I want no part of that.
I am praying for all partys involved.
Regardless, God is still in charged I watched NewSprings web cast this morning 3 people were SAVED, the HOLY SPIRIT was there!!!!!!!!!!
Is anybody really surprised? We’re talking about Perry–the ego has landed–Noble. What this email details barely scratches the surface of what goes on inside Camp Noble. Mr. Duncan, I’m so sorry that this has happened to you… makes me sick. May God bless you and your family.
Thank you for your bravery to speak out.
Mr. Duncan,
I read the whole story and it appears the enemy is alive and well. His attacks will just get worse as we all know his days are very numbered. I have seen a few short video’s of Perry Noble preaching and it comes from the pit. There are many like Perry and speaks of these “Wolves that come in sheep’s clothing”. Aposatasy is running rampant in these days. It is a sad day indeed in the church when a so called Pastor will not humble himself before the Lord and repent. The Bible does speak of Pastor’s, teacher’s or anyone in authority in the church being held to a higher accountability. We all know that pride comes before the fall and Perry Noble might not feel it today or tomorrow, but it is coming as he has profaned the church. We also know “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”, so with that being said Perry Noble it is clear has no fear of the Lord. God’s word certainly holds true and this scripture perfectly describes Perry Noble and any who follow him.
For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. (2 Timothy 3:2-5 ESV)
Mr.Duncan,
As a former pastor of a church similar to NewSpring, I understand the depth of impunity and arrogance with which the leadership flaunts its perceived “liberties.” Having now read both the carefully scripted legalesed blog posting and your fair, honest and detailed synopsis, I am truly disgusted by PN’s staff in this case.
As a dad of an adopted baby girl, my heart aches for the loss you and your wife have experienced. May God richly bless you in your pursuit of child.
Praying 2 Cor 13:11 over both parties involved.
Sir, I have never read your blog until now, but let me say– you now have me as a devoted follower. I am appalled and saddened at what your family was put through simply because you were exercising your right to free speech. I admire your courage and am so sad for your family. I am also sad for that church. In my mind, that church and it’s leaders will always be a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences in such an articulate and RESPECTFUL manner. I pray that you and your family will be blessed beyond measure from here on out!
I am disgusted by PN and his ilk, but not surprised. I have oft heard comments from the pulpit that are embarrassing and unfitting a man of God… It is no surprise then to me that he attracts that sort of behavior in his staff and leadership. I’m sure he knew exactly what was going on to some extent and probably found it midly humorous based on other condoningly sinful comments in his sermons on other topics…
as to those who are criticizing Dr. Duncan for sounding the alarm about NS. Shame on you. Jude 3. We are CALLED to defend the faith. Some of you have referred to the “meekness of Jesus”, to you I would suggest you pick up a Vine’s dictionary and look up the translation for meekness. It doesn’t mean we sit back and take the junk being dolled out or that we allow this tripe to continue…
We have to fight, need I remind you of the Jesus who tossed the Temple Courts and money changers… Holy anger is acceptable.
You keep concerning yourself with the people who are on the cusp of following Jesus who will be turned off because of this. You are incorrect in that assertion. Give God the due credit He deserves in Salvation. He draws men to Him. Even the worst attempts of man cannot prevent a soul from trusting if Christ. Granted, we want to be careful of the way we represent Christ, but I’ve seen nothing from Mr. Duncan that would make me one bit ashamed to be associated with him. PN on the other hand is a fool and anyone that would stand with him is blind.
He needs to be called to repentance as do the rest and if they refuse then they need to be booted out of their so called church. At least that’s the way it would work in a Biblically structured church.
Someone said that Mr. Duncan’s true colors were revealed in this. Are you kidding? His true colors were revealed in that he continues on in the faith in spite of all this…
The true colors revealed, which were no shock, came from PN and NS.
Before you gripe at Mr. Duncan for his money request, remember A.) they asked him for a figure… if you ask, you’d better be ready for an answer…
B.) How much would any of you asked for? no less I suspect. Possibly more even… I might have asked for more…
He’s going to have to move his family… from their HOME. Noble and his staff haven’t been threatened. Their lives haven’t been uprooted nor have any of their families been threatened…
PN is in the public eye as any public figure and is subject to any criticism warranted or not. Just as is Mr. Duncan. But Mr. Duncan’s comments were never personal to PN. NS’s comments were.
Mr. Duncan, I have been there brother. Although your situation is far more severe, on a smaller scale I’ve been there and I know how badly that stinks on many levels. I’m praying for you and the safety of your family. I’m also praying that God call NS and all who would side with the antics of Perry Noble to repentance before any more damage is done.
You keep concerning yourselve
JD, I’m sorry for what you have been through. I have been through similar smear campaigns at the hands of brothers and sisters in Christ whom I loved and trusted. That hurts more than if someone in the WORLD disagreed and worked against. Though it was several years ago, I still have to remind my heart that I have consciously forgiven those people. I always greet them kindly when I see them (though I live several hours away from them now). The effects on my wife and children were severe. Nobody seemed to care about that. I have walked in your shoes … perhaps not to that level … but I know that hurt. God bless you.
[...] referring to this post at pajamapages.com from Dr. James Duncan, Associate Professor of Communication from Anderson [...]
SB,
Seems like your attention should be on the filth, not the person pointing it out.
Gene,
I agree. No one is perfect.
You wrote: “I know many preachers and not one is perfect, But if God has chosen them to be His servant, Who are we to criticize, We find in 2 Kings 23-24 where God allowed 2 bears to kill 42 kids for making fun of Elisha. I want no part of that.”
If you are active in a church (and apparently you are), you have an obligation to test and discern that what you see and hear is correct and edifying. Your pastor should expect and welcome this.
No one is perfect, which is exactly why you need to pay attention to what is said and done. Or in this case the lapse in judgment and lack of action.
Does it not trouble you that no one from NS has apologized to JDuncan? No one is perfect. You’ve got that right.
i am greatly disturbed by what has happened to you.
This is appalling. I am helping to spread the word about this. If there is any other way to help you with anything please let me know.
No one is completely objective, so everyone should be the most critical of their own potential bias. I am a regular attender of New Spring, have been for five months now, so one might consider me to be an inexcusably biased opinion on this matter. However, my purpose here is to recount my experiences and combine them with what I’ve read in the Bible into a purposeful conclusion.
What I have witnessed at New Spring has done nothing but further my relationship with God, as it has with many of my friends who also attend New Spring. I will stand on my experience that the environment there is cohesive in (1) praising God in Spirit and in truth (2) effectively sharing the gospel of salvation through Christ alone (3) emphasizing the importance of seeking God’s direction first and foremost (4) providing meaningful insight into walking closer to God on a daily basis and (5) supporting mission teams to reach out to other ethnicities and nationalities. I, for what my opinion is worth, agree with this environment and want to aid anything like this that is consistently fulfilling the Great Commission (read Matthew 28:16-20 for those of you who do not know what I am referring to) and applying Scripture to its full purpose (check out II Timothy 3:16-17).
(To those posting on this blog) What I see here is a bunch of people venting their feelings, and often in the immature method of name calling. Seriously people? I understand if a person has likes and dislikes of a certain idea, methodology, person, or even a pastor in this case. That is perfectly alright. In fact, I will agree that Perry has unconventional preaching styles, including sometimes-offensive content or remarks (keep in mind that Jesus’ remarks to the Pharisees were often highly offensive, so that cannot be a standard of judgment on this issue). But I completely disagree with this superficial blogging method of criticism.
When it comes to publicly defacing one who is standing in the name of Christ, I want to call all of you to a higher standard of examination. I see many many comments of those who have never attended New Spring and consequently have not experienced the church personally and regularly. So I understand how they might come to the conclusions drawn of the pastor’s arrogance and the church’s systematic hatred and suppression. But I want to urge all readers here that this is simply not the case.
The sinful actions and negligence of some members of New Spring Church is undeniable here. Mr. Duncan, I am horrified that something such as this would be committed against a fellow believer, regardless of the difference of opinions, and I sympathize as much as possible (I have not lived in your situation so perfect understanding and complete sympathy is not possible) with you and want to reiterate that God is ultimately in control, despite our unavoidable blunders as humans. Although I do not approve of this blog as a means to your end, I do appreciate your willingness to approach the church privately first. Please know that I am rooting for things to work out in your future adoption attempts and that I apologize (even though this really doesn’t suffice) for the actions of hatred against you. If I could at all change them, I would in a heartbeat.
In addressing this blog in it’s current critical form, the question left to beg is the one posed by Paul in Philippians 1:15-18 (specifically verse 18). I, by direct witness, know that “Christ is preached”(in the full meaning of this term) in New Spring every Sunday. So my question is . . . Are the sins (by direct action or by negligence) of the eight people mentioned specifically above really worth all of these attempts to deface an establishment that is constantly and consistently being used by God to bring the lost into His abode (which need I remind you is God’s calling for every Christian). God did NOT call us to heckle and criticize each other like this blog is so aptly demonstrating, but to love and forgive in His name. The message spread to any unbelieving reader is one of revenge and dissension in the church. Is THIS the message Christ commanded us to spread to the world?
By the way, this rebuke is not a personal attack on anyone, but is intended to be a Scripture-based expression of disgust with the hypocrisy I am seeing in the actions of those involved in and those commenting on this regrettable occurrence. From viewing Scripture’s take on how Jesus handled the Pharisee’s hypocrisy, I feel that this is fully justified. And this is also not to glorify myself or my godliness, although I do not like to admit it, I sin just as much as any human. That is why Christ died, because my sins nailed Him to the cross. I think it would have solved and still can solve this situation if those involved would focus on this fact.
Thus, my call to everyone contributing to this site is for us to remember Whose we are and why we are here, to forgive as the Lord forgave us, to display the fruit of the Spirit in every word and deed, to advance the kingdom of God above our personal agendas and vendettas, and to STOP this unnecessary ungodly criticism which has more potential to do harm than good, and quite frankly is being used by Satan to distract us from our tasks appointed by God.
With desire to see God’s will manifested in each one of us,
–Jeramy
Tommy F.
I think we can and should express our concerns but only through the proper channels.
Blogs are certainly not the way it should be done it only fuel the satan’s agenda.
Remember this all started over the billboard sign “SEXED” advertising a series of sermons that would be preached at NewSpring. Does anyone care about how God Changed lives of so many people during that series?
No, we are all trying get people see only Our Narrow views of how “Church” is suppose to be done.
I am sure that 2500 years are so ago when Isaiah told the people that their “Good Works” would not get th into Heaven and he said all their rightious deeds are like a filthy garment (was referring to a woman’s menstrual cloth), I’m sure the religious and rightious leaders raised their eyebrows and sent out blogs. However, their blogs didn’t make it into history books, let alone the Bible.
Even though I am Baptist, I know for sure that GOD IS NOT a Baptist, becuase through the ages He has choosen a very diversed and questionable group of individuals to spread His Gospel and to bring His Saving Grace to a lost world.
So who are we to critize any organization that is doing that.Isn’t that what Jesus Commanded us to do?
I know one thing for sure, These blogs are not doing that!!!!!!!!!!!
I asked everone who has written or read these blogs
to spend time in prayer, for all parties envolved. Pray for comfort and healing and above all that GOD’S Will, will be done. Thank You
Wow, I am so sorry to read this. The whole thing is just sad, but not to worry. Much like you, I tend to blog my feelings
I wrote my take on it here: http://upwardcreativity.blogspot.com/
Praying for peace soon!
JD,
WOW . . . I am “textless”! . . . this I have never been! . . . (well, after a few minutes, I have brought myself to type something)
“[the malicious acts towards JD] unbeknownst to the Church” . . . “None of their actions were known to, or condoned by, the Church or its leadership in any way.” . . . PUUUULEASE! . . . if you’ll buy that, I’ve got some ocean-front property in Columbia,SC that I would love to sell you!
As someone has already eloquently stated: “Noble is Newspring.” He would know of every “squabble” (big & small) at his corporation.
“NewSpring Church will not be subjected to hollow and exaggerated threats by critics of the Church seeking outrageous sums of money.”
JD, didn’t you state that Noble’s lawyer did not even bother to look at one iota of your stack of documentation? (Has Noble lost both his ‘marbles’?)
I have a feeling that Noble’s lawyer may be “subjected” to fly back to examine your “stack” of “hollow” and “exaggerated” documentation.
[...] the RSS feed or subscribe via email to receive updates on this topic and many others!Reports from this story are making their way around the Internet this week. Honestly, I’d like very much to say that I’m not shocked, but I really am. I [...]
[...] of the issue. NewSpring, a local Mega-Church in the area, made a public announcement and then James Duncan, a well liked and respectable professor on campus, replied with all the [...]
What happened to Mr.Duncan and his family is terribly shocking…and that it was done by people who claim to be true Christ followers is very upsetting to me. If I were attending a church where people in leadership knew of and perhaps even participated in something this vile, I would run from there as fast as my legs would take me…no matter how many members it has, how eloquent the pastor or how wonderful its programs. It may look good on the surface, but something is very wrong at the core! Instead of bringing the situation fully to light and trying sincerely to right the wrong, it is being swept under the rug. Whether the blogs you(Jeramy/Gene) mention are wrong or right in their criticisms…that is not the issue before us here. (Why do you even bring that up? Not the time or place for that discussion.) The issue is that what happened to the Duncans was totally wrong, behavior unbefitting Christians much less Christians in leadership, and DaySpring church has yet to resolve the matter in the biblically prescribed manner. That, to me, says all I need to know about Dayspring (despite your glowing account)…blogs or no blogs. Their refusal to properly deal with the situation speaks volumes. I pray for all involved, the leadership, congregation, and especially for the Duncan family.
I am so sorry for all the hurt that this has caused you and our family.
As a woman that has gone through the open adoption process as a Birth Mother I am appalled. That poor Girl trying to figure out what to do with all this drama that she really probably didn’t understand. The way you and your wife handled it was with the Grace that only Godly people could have.
I pray for your, your wife and your son’s healing.
As an outsider looking in this whole situation is sad. I would hope and pray that my pastor would handle it differently.
The allegations that have been brought against Newsprings are absolutly insane. I am a member and for a long time was worried that my soul was in serious danger.But when I started attending Newspring Perry Noble and moving sermons helped me realize just what my purpose was in life and that is to live as God wants me to and to walk with Him everyday.Please stop “hating” and let him continue teaching God’s word.Do not judge other people.It no ones place but God’s and He knows us better than we know ourselves.Peace-
It really is hard for me to read these comments that have no love or empathy for James Duncan. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked. Todd Bentley, Gary Lamb, and even Ted Haggard still have die-hard followers. I guess people don’t want to believe that they’ve been fooled and would rather stay “ignorant”.
Has NewSpring become a cult? This is how people from NewSpring respond when serious charges are ignored or swept under the rug by the leadership? More than that, the church itself slanders and misrepresents (read: lies) about the Christian who has been threatened and harassed by PAID employees of NewSpring church? NewSpring is acting more like the Mormon church or the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their actions speak louder than anything they can say.
These actions taken against James Duncan are inexcusable. Perry Noble needs to take responsibility for what his paid staff members have done AND not done. I can assure you that if that attitude was being exhibited or manifested, it must be rebuked. Like Christ rebuking Peter. That is what should have been done, but it was not and their fruits are showing.
I have signed this anonymously because frankly I do not want to be sent homosexual magazines and harassed by people who’ve done the same to James Duncan.
dr. duncan, as a student of au, i’ve never had the privilege of taking one of your classes; however, i have been paying attention to your interactions with newspring for a long time. i’d like to say that i support you 100% in this matter, and i hope that some changes come about from this whole ordeal.
now that the preliminaries are over, please allow me to deliver my scatterbrained ideas in a random pattern that will be imparted purely as they arrive at my fingertips. it is almost 4 a.m., and i am rather groggy, so feel free to take any logic from this that you’d like and apply where necessary.
i can say from personal testimony that any criticism of newspring church that i have brought before members that i have known personally for years has again and again been met with hostility. of course, no one has ever had the nerve or lack there of to do anything to me like they have to you, but who’s to say they never will. i am appalled at their actions but not surprised in the least.
i am going to spread the word about this. i will not stand for a fellow christian being defamed in this matter (and by professing christians for crying out loud!!!) and i want people to know about this. not to convince them to hate newspring church, but to make their own assumptions about what has occurred. the parties concerned should have known better than to mess with a professor of communication–especially in a town the size of anderson.
this is an absolutely disgusting display of persecution. it’d be one thing if church goers could simply write it off as “a few bad apples needing to be picked” or “every church has ‘em,” but it’s more than that. this ranges from the peons to the anderson pope himself. this is what happens when misguided people go to a misguided church, and it just so happens to be successful.
lastly, i hate to call someone’s personal faith into question, but when you do things like this to a fellow believer (or any human being for that matter) can you really call yourself a christian? do you think that jesus lives inside of a person who behaves in this manner? i don’t know the answers to these questions, but it’s something to think about.
i need my bed now. these are things that i shouldn’t have to think about, but i do. my heart is stirred by the misguided.
peace,
jh
[...] RT @JesusNeedsNewPR: Holy crap. Don’t criticize @perrynoble & @newspring or you might get hurt! http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3780 [...]
This is, in one sense, shocking. However, I have heard enough similar stories of abuse from within Evangelical churches to see that this isn’t completely uncommon — and that’s even more shocking. The fact that NewSpring feels that a difference of opinion is grounds for rebuke and denigration shows that it refuses to live in the ‘real world’ where people can disagree on things and not dehumanise their opponents.
Ironically, the statement from NewSpring reads like something an attorney may have written in order to protect itself from legal action. In other words, it sounds like the church doesn’t really care about how its members/staff should act as representatives of a religious group (i.e. as Christians) but rather how they should act as legal subjects of a corporate entity. And yet they’re playing the ‘good Christians’ card? The philosopher Slavoj Zizek mentions (rather frequently) that ideology is most effective when contradictions cease to register as contradictions. I think this counts as an effective ‘churched’ ideology. Is Christ ‘preached’ at NewSpring? At times, probably. But what does that really mean if it is not simply an implicit excuse for some of the staff’s and membership’s actions?
James, I hope that your family is able to find a place to recover and move past this series of appalling incidents. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Also, I am glad that Ben Milstead has done honorable things to show that the entirety of NewSpring isn’t ideologically motivated. From what I can gather, he’s the best example for those involved in this campaign to take responsibility and show a ‘Christian’ response to past actions.
Mr. Duncan – I believe that this blog post was done in a very restrained and biblical manner. I do not attend a Newspring church, and while I appreciate Perry Noble, Newspring Church and it’s methods for preaching the gospel, I am appalled at their lack of interest in making their relationship whole with you. I am praying that your post will be the catalyst for healing and redemption for everyone involved.
[...] Tomorrow I “may” address a few. Until then, here’s the link. [...]
Regarding handling this in the blog world, I think this is justified biblically in every sense. When a nationally known pastor and church conduct themselves in this manner, without repentance, and continue a pattern like this, taking it to the larger church (Matthew 18) means using the same means that Noble does to communicate, i.e. the world wide web. As the victim of spiritual abuse in churches and having seen how “Christians” conduct themselves in conflict, I believe the sunlight of public exposure is often the only disinfectant available. It serves as a warning to other believers that they are dealing with a church that has thrown off the constraints of Scripture. These false leaders are the ones who sow discord, not those who expose the rot.
The bible says that we shouldn’t even give the appearance of evil. I think all of the “sexed up” “christianity” out there is evil. I see the connection with all of the high profile “teachers” (spiritual wickedness in high places) and that tells me all of them are charlatans, who are mixing the bible, and the gospel with error and it is paving the way for the one-world religion, and the anti-christ. I am not surprised at any of this, I think it is terrible.
It’s amazing that so many of you actually believe that you’re shedding light on the true nature of this church and its senior pastor by the cowardly act of blogging, when most of you don’t even have a clue what the truth is. You automatically assume that Newspring and Pastor Noble are spiritually corrupt, even though you’ve never attended the church or met Perry. You’re basing your conclusions on second-hand information given to you by a man who obviously has an ax to grind with the church. Now I’m not accusing Mr. Duncan of being a liar, but how do we know for sure that his account isn’t somewhat slanted? How do we we know that God didn’t step in at the last minute, and take the adoption process in a different direction? I certainly don’t claim to know the whole truth about Newspring, Pastor Noble, or the Duncans, regarding this situation. And I would hope that more of you would admit that you don’t know the whole truth, either, and therefore you will be more careful when you go on the attack against others.
I think that with the right lawyer you could have a real case for criminal stalking and harassment, and yes, Perry Noble and the business entity that is NewSpring would be liable. Regardless of the mission of the church, the church is a business and they are subject to the law. God is not an excuse for criminal action–anyone remember the FLDS ranch? Perry is in essence the “CEO” of the church, therefore he should have to answer for the actions of the people that are claiming affiliation with the church–especially employees. In the eyes of the law, he can’t hide and say “he didn’t know”.
The law is changing all over the country, and cyberstalking and harassment are now recognized as criminal charges in many states. There is new case law validating victims’ claims in civil court too.
If I was a lawyer, I would definitely give you my card. I think you have a heck of a case here.
Wow. If even 10% of this is true and I am not suggesting that any of it is false as I live well outside of South Carolina, then many people have much from which to repent. For all of Perry Noble’s indignation with sin, this should disturb him to the depths of his soul. I am truly sorry that your family has been through this nightmare. I am encouraged that even in the midst of this, faith is still your guiding light. So many folks confronted by this kind of “church” behavior would have lost faith. Thanks be to God for what is at work within you and your family. As an adoptive parent, you will especially be in my prayers that your family will soon be blessed with the pitter-patter of little feet. Blessings!
[...] 7, 2009 at 1:32 pm (Faith, Rant, christianity) After certain events have happened (read for yourself) between the leadership of NewSpring and James Duncan, i noticed a couple of comments about the [...]
This is in answer to some of the comments directed towards me.
Remember: this is from MY point of view. Everybody has one.
It appears to me that Duncan’s crusade against NewSpring actually started two years ago when he says he began writing articles against NewSprings campaigns. Therefore, Duncan began all this, not NewSpring. His blogs have a bitter and hateful tone. It appears that he does spend quite a bit of time blogging and that his main goal at this time in his life is to destroy NewSpring.
Over the past several days I have gone through Duncan’s archives and read previous posts. However, it is unfortunate that his vendetta against NewSpring overshadows anything else that has been blogged.
While I do attend NewSpring, I’ve never been told to ignore bloggers. However, I have only attended the past 6 Sundays. I will say that I’ve not had enough experience with NewSpring in regards to them being a “cult” or the “Christian Mafia.” All I know is what I’ve seen and heard at NewSpring on Sundays, and so far all I’ve seen and heard is PN preaching the gospel.
When the Church is going God’s work, as is NewSpring, the Church will be persecuted. The more lives who are saved by Jesus through the work of NewSpring, the worse and more frequent the criticism will become.
I do have to apologize for calling Duncan “Satan.” That was out of line.
I do not in anyway condone what was said or done by the certain few at NewSpring who attacked Duncan. However, it was a FEW – not the entire church of NewSpring. That needs to be made clear.
Yes, I am involved in other activites besides telling others what great things Christ has done in my life. My family is the second most important thing to me in the world, and I try and spend most of my time with them. I work 40+ hours a week (during which time I do find ways to tell my co-workers about Christ). I try to get together with my friends in my “spare” time. I don’t shop, play yahtzee, watch tv, get manicures – or pedicures for that matter. I understand it is probably impossible to spend all of one’s time sharing Jesus with others, but the one thing that stands out most to me in Duncan’s blog is that he would like to see NewSpring destroyed.
It’s a possibility that if someone stumbles across Duncan’s blog by accident and reads about the mess that he himself started, they might just be intrigued enough to check out NewSpring. After all, if an educated individual is spending the majority of his time trying to tear down this Church, it would be worth visiting NewSpring just to see what great works God is doing through NewSpring.
I’m not devoted to NewSpring or Perry Noble or any of the other pastors or staff. I don’t defend them to anyone and everyone: I defend Christ and God’s Word. I am devoted to GOD and GOD alone. If I began to see or hear things at NewSpring that I know to go against God’s Word, I will be the first to leave.
I believe constructive criticism which attempts to better someone or something is very good, but not criticism that tries to tear down a church day after day after day. Nothing good can come of it.
“I think, too, that NS can tend create disciples such as commenter Candi with her ironic, shrill and ugly diatribe.” I wasn’t created by NewSpring. I am a free-thinking individual. I’m not sure how my comment was ironic, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t “shrill,” as the definition of “shrill” is having or emitting a high-pitched and sharp tone or tones ; “a shrill whistle”; “a shrill gaiety.” Ugly? Okay. I’ll give you that.
I would venture to say, though I don’t know it for a fact, that there are those who criticize PN and NS who are nonbelievers. I’ve never heard PN say anything at all about his critics. This is just what I believe from reading God’s Word.
I have read Duncan’s story, as he tells it. Duncan, can you provide the documents to back up your story? How do we all know this is the truth? I would think Duncan would want to provide his “followers” with proof that he is telling the truth, this all this really happened, and that he’s not just a bitter man. If Duncan can provide proof that his entire story is true, then I’ll take a step back and review the situation.
JOHN – “This battle that Perry Noble has started with his “critics” has led to this unfortunate situation.” Have you only read this one blog? Go back to the very beginning two years ago and you’ll see that PN and NS starting nothing. Duncan is the one and only cause of all this mess.
Duncan may not be a psycopath, but he apparently has serious mental issues. Hopefully he is seeing a Christian counselor to help him deal with his bitterness and anger.
P.S. I failed to mention I just became a fan of PN’s FB blog several days ago and stumbled upon this Friday. I don’t have time to blog, post, comment, twitter, or whatever there is out there. I do, however, have a FB which I am rarely able to get on because there are too many other important things in life.
Candi,
wow, where do i even begin to address your post. I know…lets start here:
“I don’t have time to blog, post, comment, twitter, or whatever there is out there”
But yet you have FOUND the time to find this blog, read thru the lengthy account and comments, formulate your own post, and yet you claim to have no time and criticize others for the time they spend writing blogs. Hmmm…..that is the very definition of IRONIC.
Where do you find that Mr Duncan’s goal is to “destroy” Newspring? Critiquing equals wanting to see NS destroyed? As a previous commenter stated should Martin Luther not bothered to take the time to put together his 95 theses? Werent people in the church during Luther’s day being saved? Then Luther should have kept his big mouth shut according to your logic.
When you ask for a million dollars you look like someone looking for a payday.
Had you said, no money please, I just want things made right. Then you would have gotten your resolution.
Your greed got in the way bud.
Candi,
Apparently you are blinded by your devotion to PN. Though you deny it, I find that hard to believe. Here are a few times why I think this (basically on your claim that you went back and “read” some of the posts on here):
Many times JD has made the statement that his goal is not to destroy NS, but that it will notice how far it has strayed and change its ways. It’s also apparent that you are unable to use a blog (seeing as how if you go back to February of ’09 of this blog, there are 0 posts about Newspring. I’m looking for the 2 years you have stated (still haven’t found it.) Also, as Dr. Duncan has said, this ALL began with something he wrote about NS’s “sexed” series. I have to say as a Christian, I 100% agree with his point of view about it, though I knew nothing of it until after finding this website.
It is funny though that you mention hearing PN preach the Gospel. Does he preach the Gospel or does he simply preach salvation? I know for a fact that I’ve watched several of his sermons over the web with reference to one (maybe two) pieces of scripture, usually to back up what he has been saying (it is a well known fact that it is easy to manipulate scripture when used out of context) and not completely used in their context.
As has been stated many times (in this blog as well as other places.) NS may be working for God, but it is a very dangerous statement to say that just if you weren’t doing something right, God would have stopped it. Do I believe there are people who are serious about Jesus and have a strong conviction at NS? Yes. Do I believe the leadership at NS is capable of leading them in their walk with the Lord as required by the Bible? NO! A resounding NO. This has been made evident, not only by recent events, but by NS staff’s mockery of seminary. If you have a strong conviction for something and are REALLY wanting to be good at it and know it more than anyone else, you are going to go out of your way to find, learn, and increase your knowledge of this subject (I feel this way because I’m working on my PhD degree, something that requires tons of work, but insures that I have the skills required to be an expert in my field.) It is very difficult to understand why someone who is of God would want to make fun of people who want to further their knowledge of the Word.
It is our job as Christians to protect ourselves and question our leadership. A good minister, preacher, pastor (which IMO Perry Noble is NOT) would welcome these challenges and scriptually explain to you, why he/she is right. PN does not do this (I personally believe its his lack of understanding when using the Word, though I may be wrong), he simply dismisses critics. What is most disconcerting here is how blindly you follow PN. How you can look on here and not find pts made not only by JD, but independent parties and simply dismiss them…. is ……. scary.
If you have simply missed Perry’s diatribes on his critics you should read this blog. You must be missing something during the sermon. Cause they are recorded and posted on youtube for everyone to see and relive. Were you not there for the one where he was praying for God to let him beat up the lady?
I’m sure Dr. Duncan can defend himself, but this I feel is from my pt of view not necessarily Duncan’s since you obviously believe he is here to destroy NS.
============
Again, from Day 1 I have been no fan of NS from the first I heard of PN’s “theology.” I was asked to attend service at NS many a times, which I declined politely, because of what I thought was a severe lack of reverence from the pulpit. I believe it becomes more and more apparent. It is the blind, unquestioning followers of PN that worry me. These are same type of people that ended up behind David Koresh and Joseph Smith…..
Mr. D,
Do you feel better now?
This Holy Rage at the Spring post really shows your loving forgiving Christian attitude.
I think your obsessed with PN and have too much time on your hands.
DISGRACEFUL and SHAMEFUL behavior on the part of PN and his church. What a terrible witness he is for non-believer’s. If he has brought anyone to Christ, they surely do not know about this immoral and outrageous behavior. We are suppose to be set apart, and NOT like the rest of the World. The fruit of the spirit in this church is NOT from Jesus Christ and I am sure it GRIEVES the Lord.
A few months ago, during one of Newsongs conferences, I noticed that the embedded live stream was running ads for a divorce lawyer. It was funny, because Perry Noble was talking about families staying together. It appeared the player was simply displaying ads based upon the content of Perry Noble’s talk. No big deal. I tweeted about the irony and didn’t think much about it – until members of Newsongs staff begun following my tweets. It seems this church has a culture of not being able to handle critiques and keeping a tabs on those who would dare criticize.
Mr. Duncan,
After reading your whole blog, I am truly saddened and surprised by the attacks that have been brought on you and your family. I am praying for restoration and peace in this chaotic time. I am praying specifically for your wife as she is being robbed of the feeling of being a new mother, despite if there was anyone at fault for this particular action.
As a member of New Spring, I wanted you to know that not all view you as an enemy. I frequently read your blogs in simple effort to know why I believe what I believe and see other view points in effort to defend my own. I have always appreciated different opinions and respect that some styles of worship or doctrine are different than others so long as the basis of it is Jesus.
I also wanted to apologize for members of my church who have responded to your blog with more ridicule and attacks. I’m not sure exactly where they see that they’re in the right or how they see they are showing Christ’s love.
I do not think NS is perfect, nor is any other church, and I feel that any church has an opportunity to have people who are in leadership roles that do not act accordingly. I apologize that these people were from my church. I am also continually praying for my church’s leadership and pray that those who are guilty will be lead to repentance.
I thank you for sharing your full story. I personally think it was a brave thing to do. I’m sorry that you’ve had to open this to the public as I’m sure you wanted these matters to stay privately, just like any other family. Please know that me and my best friend Megan, another member, are praying for you and your family. We do not want you or others to see us any differently than a random person who is attending a church they are spiritually growing at.
I am so terribly sorry to hear about the harassment and abuse endured by your family. But I am not shocked or surprised.
My brother and family joined New Spring a few years ago. None of them are the same people they were before. My brother was one of the kindest men you’d ever want to meet. We were a close family who spent time together. Now we only talk maybe one or twice a year. You can’t be around my brother and his family without being subjected to hateful criticism. The entire family has become mean spirited. They have withdrawn from the rest of the family. I am the only member of my family who even continues to try and maintain a relationship. I have seen and spoken to my brother once this year. I used to talk to him several times a week.
I have tried to talk to my brother that showing Christ’s love might be a better way of sharing faith than attacking others. I have shared scripture. But my loving discussions have fallen on deaf ears. In fact, my discussions with my brother had done nothing but earned me hateful, personal attacks. My entire extended family has been attacked because we attend more traditional churches.
But that’s the way of New Spring’s members – A good offense is the best defense.
Once you have been around members of New Spring, you can spot them a mile away. Not because of the love of Christ flowing from them, but because of their hate-filled view of other Christians.
New Springs members that I know attack any outside of their church, even family. And yes, I have attended services at the church. I know first hand what I am talking about. I have three teenagers who have attended with me. They have refused to go back. My children have attended church since the day they were born. And even at their age, they know something just isn’t quite right at New Spring. And I have yet to attend a service at New Spring where the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached.
I have been following New Spring for a couple of years now. Noble creates footprints that lead others off the path of righteousness. Some of his personal twitter postings about ‘hot’ women on airplanes are shocking. And his sermon about not visiting sick people was in total contradiction to the scripture in Matthew.
The members of New Spring who committed these vile acts did so because Noble has made it acceptable to treat people outside of New Spring with hatred and contempt.
I will continue to pray for your family. What happened to you was evil committed by evil people.
I hope you consider pursuing compensation to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe then, you can open up eyes of the members of New Spring so that they can see the true character of the people leading their church. As for me, I will continue to pray every night that the Lord opens my brother’s eyes to the truth.
God’s word says to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather to expose them. What was done to you deserved to be made known, and the conduct of the people who tried to hurt you was sick, vindictive and very criminal in nature. I pray they feel shame and repent. May God give you and your family healing….
Mr. Duncan, i received a link to this on Twitter and must say that I am only somewhat surprised at this news, while I am still appalled.
I attend a church much in the same aesthetic and cultural likeness of NS, some of our leaders are well acquainted and we even attend some of their conferences, but apparently far from their idea of social or scriptural value. I regret this news. I cannot say that I am 100% shocked, however, due to 2 of the person’s mentioned. Both are or were lead pastor’s and are well associated. Both have some acquaintance with my church. I also wrote about discomfort with their unhealthy use of language and reference amidst their messages.
I followed both of them on Twitter at one time as well and had to relieve myself of their constant negativity, you know with the whole be joyful part. Shortly after my decision, one of them was in fact forced to resign his position based on some bad decision making, and I am even more angry at him for the comments made concerning you. This makes his words of regret concerning his “mis-cues” seem worthless.
I am also disappointed with the whole BAMF thing. Their style of shock religion, while done scripturally soundly can be very effective, when done simply for shock cheapens Jesus’ sacrifice, which is exactly why I stopped paying attention to NS to begin with.
Lastly, I just hope that you can make a decision now to move away from this hurt and begin to forgive and pray for, not against, NS. There are about 10,000 people there commonly who could use grace, much like ourselves. God Bless.
I am sick and tired of the whole “you ain’t never been there!” argument. How exactly do you know that any of us have never been to NewSpring? And what if we haven’t? I have visited several times, but this is the future and I could just as easily watch online. Is a different show performed in the building than what is broadcast on the internet? No. It is the same. You do however get some relief from the opening acts by watching online.
And as for the few saying that Dr. Duncan should just let this go: are you serious? What would you to? I don’t questing Perry Noble’s or any other NewSpringer’s salvation. If he says he’s a Christian, that is good enough for me. Having said that, however, being a Christian does not make you a good person and it certainly doesn’t give anyone a license for this type of behavior. I firmly believe that Perry Noble knew about this all along. He has always claimed to not care what his critics think. But how could he know he had any critics if he wasn’t listening? The man lives his life on the internet. If you or anyone else has ever written anything about Perry Noble, you can rest assured he’s read it.
What this church has done is nothing short of criminal and Mr. Duncan is a much more disciplined and gracious man than I am because if it were me, I wouldn’t give up until I owned that giant office building of theirs.
WOW is all I can think to say. I am a mother of 4 adopted boys and my heart breaks for your family right now. I have been to newspring and I do not argue that the word of God is preached there. However we are only human and we do make mistakes. This appears to be a huge mistake on the part of the church. Especially when so many of the core members were in the loop of knowledge about the threats and taunting of this poor family. It saddens me that men act as boys on a playground, when their are people and childrens lives and futures at stake. I will be praying for you and your family and the child God has for you
Candi,
First off, we know it’s your opinion. You wrote it.
Therefore, because of these few persons sins, the whole body is affected in some way.
Second-he wrote one article that was published to my knowledge.
Third-you have a misunderstanding of the word church. 1 Cor. 12:19 (I can provide other scripture if needed) is talkinga bout the temple of the Lord. The word ‘you’ in the verse is a plural meaning ‘you all’ (southern translation)
fourth-Mr. Duncan doesn’t want Newspring destroyed he said so in a recent post.
fifth- criticisms aren’t persecution, it’s opinion. Want to see persecution, go live in Uganda, or China and profess Christ.
sixth-”Duncan may not be a psycopath, but he apparently has serious mental issues. Hopefully he is seeing a Christian counselor to help him deal with his bitterness and anger.”
Seems like your entire post is out of anger and so was Perry’s response to critics.
I’m not attacking you or how you live your faith, so you don’t get all in a twist. I think it’s awesome that you share your faith, that’s what America needs. But you don’t have a to flaunt it.
I meant to reference 6:19 in the previous post but 12:19 works as well.
James,
I have not read the whole article but I did hear the interview on F4F and was appalled at what happened to you. I plan on reading the article and commenting further.
To Jeramy who has been a “regular attender” at Newspring for about five months.
You say that as Christians we should be above publicly defacing those who stand in the name of Christ. I totally agree. But you do realize that there is a difference between being critical of the content of someone’s preaching and teaching publicaly defacing them. And I hope you also realize that how Perry Noble speaks of his critics (questioning their salvation by calling them ‘so-called Christians’ etc.) is much closer to defacing someone who stands in the name of Christ than anything his critics say of him.
Let’s see –
Head of security of areas largest church threatens violence against fellow Christian albeit critic with full knowledge of associate pastor and other member volunteers.
The same persons send out messages soliciting sex at the Duncan’s home, along with references to his wife and child, while also sending pornography to them.
They advertise that Mr. Duncan has hay for sale at a time a serial killer has killed two people who happen to also be selling hay.
They forge a letter of resignation to his employer.
They conspire and actually sabotage an adoption that had been set up for months. The
lady in charge of the adoption is a New Spring member and the last minute substitute
parent is a New Spring pastor and I guess this is a COINCIDENCE.
And all this goes on unknown to the inner circle of a church staff that that is tighter than a drum. PLEASE! While certain details may not have been known, it’s pretty easy to know that serious harassment was being done to someone. But that’s OK because he’s a critic of certain things about the church and the pastor.
Now the single biggest reason I can believe the victim’s side of this story is because he has always posted the comments of his CRITICS!! He’s not afraid to face criticism or to answer his critics without the palpable rage of a bully.
Maybe I have missed it, but has anyone even APOLOGIZED to this family? And I’m not talking about a high powered Texas attorney (guess there are no personal injury lawyers good enough in the area to handle a case with no merit).
As for the people who think Duncan should just drop this in the spirit of forgiveness, what about the atonement that should come from the other side? After the attempts to intimidate him,his wife and child, ruin his reputation and career,
leaving them feeling unsafe in their own home and community, and coercing a VULNERABLE
young pregnant girl (and lets not forget what trauma this must have inflicted on her) for their own vengeful purposes, I say there is hardly enough money to cover that. The 800 pound gorilla (or the 8000 member church) bullies around one man who disagrees with some of their methods and doctrines in an open forum and without rancor in a way that differences of opinion should be debated. Sounds a little like the Inquisition to me, just without the openess.
It’s time for the head of the church, Perry himself, to apologize for what has transpired, and to take some responsibilty (even if he didn’t know all the details)
and to seek reconciliation face to face with Mr. Duncan. But that’s going to take eating a slice of humble pie so large that even Perry’s appetite probably can’t handle.
There are 2 sides to every story. There is also Love. Love covers a multitude of sins. We will never know what really happened, but It does look like you have an axe to grind with this Church. If there are people within this Church that are doing these things then pray for them! Love them! Let it go! Bitterness, and Offense will rot you from the inside out.
We always know how to quote the word. It is just hard to live it out. 7 times 70 Brother. May God fill you with peace, forgiveness, and understanding. Stop letting the Devil steal from you! This Christian life is not for Wimps.
I listened to your story on Fighting for The Faith and read the rest of it here.
I feel your pain, as someone who publicly attacked and was abused in my case by the church I was a member of at the time.
Keep up the fight, God Bless
Joe
Praying for you and your family Mr. Duncan. It is at times hard to wait on the Lord, but he is our vindicator and he will take care of your family. So sad that anyone these days can put the title “Pastor” in front of their names and to think people would even want to follow one of these Wolves is beyond my comprehension. The scriptures says “My people perish for lack of knowledge”. I pray the people that attend this church will study and take scripture VERY seriously because they will be held accountable for following a man like this. The behavior of PN, is so opposite of what Jesus stands for and it is grievous that he calls himself of representative of Jesus Christ. I just hope the congregation studies scripture carefully as “A little leaven works through the whole batch” and it seems to be happening at this church. To me this is a tragedy that anyone would follow this man and it is so obvious they do not know scripture, otherwise they would run as fast and far as they can from this evil man. Continuing to hold you and your family up in prayer and thank you for having the courage to expose this evil.
Why are you following PN’s twitter page on this blog? [JD: Because it's interesting.]
Who holds Perry Noble accountable? What kind of structure is in place as far as Elders or a board or a “team” that supervises Perry? My sense is that a phone call or email to the church will not reach the appropriate hands. Does anyone have a name of someone in leadership at NS but not on staff.
My prayer is that at least one person on staff at NS refuses to take a bullet for Perry and speaks the truth. They may end up losing their job, friends, and life as they know it, but the freedom in speaking the truth will prevail.
[...] of links that will (slowly, it’s quite a read) catch you up to speed: James Duncan’s Story: Holy Rage At The Spring and the Church’s recent Announcement. I appreciate the friends who were posting last week and put [...]
[...] love it. Say, I wonder if Pastor Mark or Pastor Perry have seen [...]
Mary,
But we DO know what happened! There is plenty of evidence…those people left a very nice trail of their malicious activities which they thought were great fun. Did you not read the entire post above? A letter of resignation from his job (which I am sure can be produced), many blog posts, testimony of people, etc. Duncan would not have brought this forward without evidence to prove what happened.
The love you talk about needs to come from NS. They did terrible harm to the Duncan family. They thought their horrible behavior was justified just because Mr. Duncan dared to critique the preaching of PN. NS did not respond to his criticisms with an attitude of love…that is the reason we are having this discussion today. Mr. Duncan has followed the biblical procedure for grievances with a brother. The ball is in NS’s court now and they are the ones who need to do the loving thing…admit their sin, apologize, and right the wrongs that have been done. I believe if NS doesn’t respond at some point, the Lord will intervene to discipline that fellowship Himself. PN may talk a good talk in his sermons…but condoning or trying to push bad behavior under the rug…is not the walk of a true Christian.
Brandy wrote: “I do not argue that the word of God is preached there. However we are only human and we do make mistakes. This appears to be a huge mistake on the part of the church.”
The Word of God may be preached there but if the shepherd of that flock is not living the Word himself and leading by Godly example…then all his sermons are in vain. This was not a ‘mistake’ as in ‘we are only human and all make mistakes’. This was sinning against the brother in the Lord. And it should be dealt with as such…SIN not a mistake, oversight, slip up. It was deliberate and malicious and as such is very serious in God’s eyes.
MK:
There is no higher authority at NewSpring than Perry Noble. His word is law and no one dares to go against him.
What a sob story! It is true that what happened to you is aweful, but dude, you put yourself out there. I am not condoning actions by these individuals, but you can’t hold the church responsible for what individuals do of their own accord. Perry Noble gets his share of threats and harassments just for preaching the Word of God! You attacked the man when you wrote your article 2 years ago and you’ve not let up since. Maybe you should spend more time focusing on your job rather than tearing down a man of God. Better yet, maybe you should spend more time with God by listening to Him through his word rather than just reading the word. There is a huge difference! Satan knows the word of God too. I feel for your wife and son. I pray for the restoration of your family and for God to contiue to bless NewSpring and Perry Noble for reaching those you probably snub.
God Bless!
SB
Rose,
You make a good point and what I hope everyone from Newspring needs to understand, there is more the “the Gospel” then what’s said on the stage for an hour a week. The Gospel includes much more then that.
1 Corinthians 6:7 — Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated?
Professor Duncan:
My prayers and compassion go out to you and your family. This is a despicable act from people who claim to be ‘Christians” who feel that ‘you deserve’ this crap because you decided to disagree with them which they consider to be on the same level as ‘touching God’s anointed’. I hope your local newspaper and television stations are following this blog story and are really spreading the word of what’s going on.
This ‘holy demonizing’ of critics all started many many years ago when Kenneth Copeland preached a now famous sermon entitled “Why all are not healed” when he made this famous statement
“Several people that I know had criticized and called that Faith bunch out of Tulsa a cult. And some of ‘em are dead right today in an early grave because of it, and there’s more than one of them got cancer.”
This, combined with the infamous misuse of the ‘touch not mine anointed’ scripture sent out a furor of people who really thought that God ‘took out’ people who specifically disagreed with them and has wrecked havoc ever since.
Fight the good fight Professor Duncan!!!!!!
[...] by Don Bryant on December 6, 2009 Jared Wilson linked to this blog that describes how down and dirty it can really get. A number of us viewed Perry Noble’s [...]
[...] Should Perry Noble Resign? Posted on December 9, 2009 by Phil Naessens Pastor Perry Noble, of New Spring Church, is on the hot seat, and rightly so. Apparently Noble’s staff decided rather then answer or even ignore a particular blogger, College Professor James Duncan, they set out to destroy this mans reputation and his family. [...]
Wow, I just read this because a blog linked to it. I genuinely feel badly for you and your family, for everything that you endured. I feel sorry for a church culture that allows and even breeds contempt and terrorism like this. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family as you try to move on from this ordeal.
[...] Here’s the Link [...]
I think it is wrong for the brethren to take each other to court, but I wouldn’t call a heard of worldly rabid wolves “brethren”. We can know them by their fruits.
There’s some vile sick depraved people out there passing themselves off as Christians, when in reality satan has sent out his wolves to do as much damage as possible to the Lords Church. But, we know who wins.
Dr. Duncan
Thank you for stepping out and calling out those who have risen above accountability. May God show Himself mighty in your life.
Seth
Charlotte NC
Perry Noble makes me want to puke. Half of his “sermons” are attempts to control people so they will stay and do pastor worship toward him and give their money. He has to be the most insecure person on the planet. He is NOT a pastor or man of God.
WOW, this goes to show how we (Christians) are meant to live. Be blameless, protect your name and what you say, but most of all DO NOT SHAME THE NAME OF THE LORD!!! I feel for you James and as a Christian spokesman I am always scared of how people will take my comments. It is hard to say anything, but evil cannot take (over) center stage. Let us bring glory to Christ!
Reconciliation between the two of you would be a wonderful witness to the world.
I see your hand extended. Where is Pastor Perry?
I imagine Perry is writing a blog about how all bloggers are anti-Christian jackasses.
mr duncan, i admire your bravery and corageous spirit. keep fighting for truth. you have shead light on an issue that many people dont want to hear. thank you! know that you have people behind you all the way. also, thanks to your family. i know that they are going through difficult times as well. my prayers and support go out to you and your family! thanks again!
It seems you took all the Biblical steps called for James. Who could do more??1!!
I pray you rest in His comfort and receive His peace. What a special ordeal He put you through to test you and I believe you passed. May you and family receive His healing now as He wants that for you all. Later when He judges righteously all will see who gets the proper vindication! Love you guys.
Shalom
Gen
I have received this from Apostasy Watch……All I can say is to stand firm…Obviously you are dong something very very right as Jesus tells us that those that do his will WILL suffer persecution……
There is something in 1st. Samuel that we can all adhere to I feel and it may encourage you…and your dear family….
1st Samuel 6
It is the story of the Phillistines taking the Ark of God from the Israelites and because of this God broke out a plague against them..( vengence of course is the Lords)…They the Phillistines realized eventually that holding on to this Ark was going to destroy them etc.
They sent it back on a new cart hitching up two mother cows.
LOCKING THEIR BABY COWS UP!!!….. They knew that in the NATURAL it would be impossible for these animals to leave their babies…..and if the cows did go it would be the Israelits God that had performed this miracle……
SO….they DID go leaving their babies behind..LOWING (crying) AS THEY (THE COWS) WENT…NOT LOOKING ( or turning aside ) TO THE LEFT OR RIGHT BUT STRAIGHT AHEAD !!!!!….
This I heard in a sermon very many years back and has encouraged me for very many years in trials that i have personally faced in my walk.
We have Gods Holy Spirit within us
(The cows were carrying the Ark of God)
In the natural it would impossible for us to walk with God
(In the ‘natural’ also the cows would not move an inch!!)
We too as “Jesus setting His Face like Flint towards Jerusalem”..set our faces like flint toward the Heavenly Jerusalem……NOT LOOKING TO THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT or T U R N I N G aside to the LEFT or the RIGHT !!!!
…………………….BUT…………………………..
We can CRY as we go….
As the Cows did they ‘ lowed ‘ cried as they went….
As with Abraham he looked to another city, the heavenly…..
Actually at one time in my life when I literally could not get out of bed because of horrendous circumstances ( I have 7 children and am a grandmother of 2 )…The Lord in His mercy brought this sermon to my spirit and mind…..I got out of bed!!!…..
Also the lord was merciful as I did not remember what had happened to the Mother Cows…
One day I went back to the scriptures to find out…..I had hoped that they would have been sent back to their baby cows…NOT SO……
…………..THEY WERE SACRIFICED on the Alter of God……….
I think if I had read that in my horrendous trial at the time I would not have had the strength to get out of bed…God was merciful to me..
We too are “strangers passing through” ..” this world is not our home”..We are with Gods help are to set our HEARTS on our Heavenly Home……..
In Mathew 24/9 Jesus tells us that the WHOLE WORLD will hate us , afflict us and kill us. Our lives are not our own…We must trust that absolutely nothing ….absolutely nothing… if we are walking in repentance before our Lord will come against us UNLESS the LORD allows…..He is purifying us for HIS COMING
In verse 12 in Mathew 24 I believe speaks of the love for Jesus growing cold because iniquity shall abound….I understand that to be professing christians (tares) turning on christians(wheat)…
God Bless you and your family………Helen ( Australia )
[...] } With the current events between Newspring’s press release and Dr. James Duncan’s rebuttal post on his blog, I am [...]
Well after all this is the church that on Easter the day The Lord Rose from the dead,decided a great worship song to celebrate His resurrection would be AC/DC Highway to Hell
Perhaps a mini-Reformation is needed. NS seems too dependent or fixated upon its “pope” and the institution itself, rather than pure Scripture.
It can’t be denied that the Holy Spirit is at work in NS as many people are being brought to Christ.
However, the Spirit doesn’t depend on people. I daresay that the good works of this church would continue without PN. If they don’t, then he hasn’t really done his job in any case.
I pray for Dr. Duncan, PN and everyone else affected by this tragedy.
I am dumbfounded and heartbroken after reading this. No wonder the world mocks us! I am as sad for the folks at NewSpring as I am for you & your family. I’m asking God to bring them a revelation of what love means before He separates the sheep from the goats.
May both you and your family as well as Perry Noble and the Church all be blessed by this situation in the end. I will pray that this strengthens everyone involved and that many lessons have been learned. God bless!
Hello,
My podcast regarding this horrible situation can be heard at the link below;
http://theologytoday.podbean.com/2009/12/11/the-bitter-fruit-of-perry-noble/
Phil
What a terrible thing to go through. I can’t believe that the second comment down blames you for the illegal actions of the others. I hope you keep up the work that the Lord has given you. Persecution is alive and well in the western world…
I am so sorry for what you and your family have gone through. I found you blog while researching New Spring. My niece and her husband joined last year after never attending any church for years. It never sounded like anything I would ever want to be involved in. Brainwashing comes to mind. It is truly scary the power that these people have. Keep up the fight and don’t let them win.
[...] Read about the man suing NewSpring Church. Read Newspring’s response. [...]
Eph 6:12 — For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
I wrote a short post on Why Bereans get bullied, on my blog. Hope it helps. http://rotlc.blogspot.com/
I am deeply disturbed at the reaction of this church as well as this on going dispute between you and the church. There is absolutely no reason for any of this to of happen. It is not our right to be judgemental or criticize any. It is our duty to share, show and spread the Love of Christ. The bible is plain black and white ink. There is no reading in to Gods word or interpreting his word one way or an other, other then the way it is written out. I have seen many churchs and pastors take the word out of context, Heck I have even sat in the midst of it. It is our job as believers to be in Gods word daily. If we are not in our word daily reading and learning it our self, but taking the word in as it is given from others rather then knowing it ourself, this is what causes destruction and terrible problems such as what you are dealing with right now. Thus opening the doors for cultified churchs. I am not stating this church is just that. However, there obviously is poor leadership happening when allowing such problems to be resolved at such jurastic measures. There is much prayer needed for this situation and those involved.
By the looks of the comments above you have received some positive and encouraging replies as well as some childish remarks. It is good to share our experiences but leave it at that. By dragging it out it can cause misleading and useless remarks continuing on a spiteful dispute that is not necessary and I assure you not what Christ would want. Be loving and forgiving and move on. That does not mean you should stay around the same people or the ones involved. There seriously needs to be some prayer over this situation. I am praying that conviction will break those spewing the lies and the hate. I am also praying the Conviction will also turn hearts around to the truth, Gods Truth. May God certainly be called in to this matter and handle it by his own mercy and justice. I am praying that all bitterness and foul false talk be silenced and sease to no exhist no longer. May those involved be broken by Gods spirit and may they allow Gods love to manifest with in them and through them. Rest in the peace of God and leave this in his hands, no longer spreading any talk about this situation. The more you bur on it the more things will stir up and get worse. It is best to lay it in the hands of God and leave it there for his hands to work with. I speak from wisdom and experience friend, let this all be rested in Gods Hands.
Bless you my friend and may the peace of God surround you and rest within.
I typed so fast that I spelled a few wrong. Lol. An other note to add: I assure you by leaving this all in Gods hands he will resolve this situation once and for all. Once he has resolved it leave it alone.
You are bold in your sharing and You will be honored but leave it where it is and talk no more of it. I trully feel the best thing right now is to leave all including the church alone. Stop your followings to their links and posts. It will only create more trouble and I assure you intervention on this problem will only be put on hold or you will not see his hands to work, it merely will blow up and continue to blow up before you. LEAVE it alone and where it is trusting it into Gods hands. I assure you will see results. Hang in there friend.
I typed so fast that I spelled a few wrong. Lol. An other note to add: I assure you by leaving this all in Gods hands he will resolve this situation once and for all. Once he has resolved it leave it alone.
You are bold in your sharing and You will be honored but leave it where it is and talk no more of it. I trully feel the best thing right now is to leave all including the church alone. Stop your followings to their links and posts. It will only create more trouble and I assure you intervention on this problem will only be put on hold or you will not see his hands to work, it merely will blow up and continue to blow up before you. LEAVE it alone and where it is trusting it into Gods hands. I assure you will see results. Hang in there friend.
The above is not good advice, but Dr. Duncan knows that.
To Steve67
Thank you for pointing out the ambiguity of the “criticism” and “publicly defacing” comment. I was referring to those presumptuous posts exemplified by the one from “T” on December 6. And as far as Perry’s criticism of others in the aforesaid manner, I have a few Scriptural things I would like to say to him about that. However, Perry was not my intended audience with this post; I was addressing the assumptions and fallacies I found in this blog. If you want me to clarify anything else from my post above, just leave another post addressed to me. Thanks again.
Professor without pointing fingers at anyone please consider your wife and child as you post and go on Inernet radio concerning this. My heart does not go out to anyone but to your wife and child that are innocent bystanders in this. I know that you consider yourself a victim but you should have known that attacking people in a blog in this environment we live in brings about a certain level of people that may or may not have compassion for your family. Please if nothing else please quit blogging about other Pastors in the area. You may enjoy it but maybe your wife did not sign on for the reprocussions that this has brought to her family. I know I would not and I beg of you to please handle this if (you can not let it go) then go about it in a different way that will not effect your family. Your wife and child are innocent bystanders in this saga that is being fought in this negative blogging by a renegade of people that want to do the ultimate fighting with hateful words. Maybe a blog should be set up to have women of Pastors blog about their feelings and how they give up their time so that their husbands can serve in their church, or wives that give up family time so their husband can sit every week to listen to sermons and pick it apart line by line. I would say that would be a civil blog and would not bring about this type of behavior. I will be praying for your wife and son and that you would step back and reevaluate how you are fighting this in the public eye.