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Media, Church, Culture

38 Comments on “How do you ignore this?”

1. 
   1 ZE said on December 6th, 2009:

   Here’s my question: why the STRONG focus on what is going on with Newspring? Why the hatred? You seem like you know scripture, did you forget about the passage that talks about judgement? How can you sit back behind your computer screen and judge others who are preaching the gospel? I’m not a newspring attender and I’ve never been. I’ve never met Perry nor do I intend to. However, Jesus tells us our focus is the GOSPEL. This blog is a stupid tool to distract others from the gospel and to focus on tearing down those who DO preach it. Can you imagine if we all spent our time going after pastors with huge egos? So what if he’s full of himself! People are coming to Jesus and that’s ALL that matters.

   Also: you don’t think you have an ego the size of Texas either? Have you even looked at your own blog??

2. 
   2 CKbeForMe said on December 6th, 2009:

   Wow. I just clicked on this link after searching for a blog post by Perry Noble. I’ve never met him nor been to his church either, I’ve just seen him at conferences. The author of this blog really needs to get some help. I mean that compassionately. Instead of seeking millions of dollars, maybe they would agree to send you to a professional counselor. One word can sum up this entire blog – ATTENTION. This dude got what he wanted. I hate to see people play the victim when it was their own illogical decisions that got them where they are. I find it hard seeing Jesus get involved in this much drama. Most of this blog is Godless chatter… Yes, you can throw around the name “Jesus” and “God” and even some scripture, but what is the motivation and heart. Afterall, that’s what truly matters. To the author of this blog, why not try to find something more meaningful, fulfilling, mature, and Christ-honoring than the countless hours spent in sin (yes, this blog is sin)?

3. 
   3 Brad said on December 6th, 2009:

   Dude, let it go. This crusade is destroying you.

4. 
   4 Jim W said on December 6th, 2009:

   For all who keep insisting that people are coming to Jesus at NewSpring and other places like it: would you please provide the proof? I keep hearing of thousands of people who have raised their hands, gotten baptized, made a profession and on and on. Beyond that rather shaky evidence, is there anything else? Like their lives have changed? I bet the people referenced in this particular post “made a profession off faith”, or raised their hand at some point. But it is pretty hard to see any proof in the evidence provided by Dr Duncan that any of those who did the despicable actions that have so hurt Dr Duncan and his family actually are or ever were anything like a Biblical Christian.
   I used to attend a seeker-sensitive church, probably not all that different from NS. I saw numerous people “make professions”, get baptized, raise their hands and all the other things that PN etal loves to claim as proof. yet, after talking to several of them, it was obvious that they had no clue what they really meant by their actions. Many of them continued to try to work their way, trying to do enough good works to earn salvation. Many believed that Jesus was just a really good guy. Many believed that “good” people go to Heaven. Many believed that Jesus was not the only way, just one of several. Maybe the best way, but not the only way.
   So until I see those thousands being willing to die for their faith, I ain’t buying it. Maybe they really are truly born again, but let me just put it straight: I don’t believe even half of those thousands are really saved.
   And anyone who could come here and condemn Dr Duncan for doing his best to protect his family and regain his good name after an attack like he’s been through is an utter fool.

5. 
   5 John said on December 6th, 2009:

   ZE,

   Wait one second …… do you think the tweets that JDuncan just posted should be received by someone who is preaching the gospel? Or should they be blocked and rejected?

   Somehow I think this question won’t be answered.

6. 
   6 Tommy F said on December 6th, 2009:

   Seems like JDuncan contacted NS just before these tweets starting coming in to BCooper and PNoble. The chronology of this stuff is bad news for NS.

   This should have tipped them off as to what the harassment might be like, and the content on here should have embarrassed and enraged them.

7. 
   7 Richard said on December 6th, 2009:

   ZE

   Is this the passage you had in mind? Jesus speaks on judgment here:

   “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
   (Mat 7:12-27 ESV)

8. 
   8 Richard said on December 6th, 2009:

   James Duncan,

   I hope you and your family were able to have a good Lord’s Day in spite of all this. I have prayed for you much today.

   fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
   (Isa 41:10 ESV)

9. 
   9 ZE said on December 6th, 2009:

   John,

   Unless I understand the story differently, Perry didn’t tweet those things.

   I agree with CK and Brad. This is absolutely ridiculous. Who has THIS much time and hatred in their heart to spend their life tearing someone down?

10. 
    10 David Strickland said on December 6th, 2009:

    Don’t worry CK, he has help. Help exposing these people for what they are. Does the Word not also say to test the spirits to see whether they are of God? If Mr. Noble can’t handle criticism, he should find another job. It’s just part of being a preacher. Oh, my mistake. I forgot, he ignores his critics. Can’t you tell?

11. 
    11 T said on December 6th, 2009:

    No. Don’t let the Noble crazies keep you from speaking your mind. Keep speaking out! Noble and Co. should be prosecuted for what they did to you. Slowly, people will wake up to the truth about Noble! His arrogance will only last so long… though it might take longer coming to light in South Carolina than say, Virginia or Maine.

12. 
    12 John said on December 6th, 2009:

    ZE,

    That’s not what I asked, do you think that someone preaching the Gospel should receive those tweets?

13. 
    13 Pr. Walter Snyder said on December 6th, 2009:

    I discovered you through a gentleman who regularly and effectively answers much of the seeker-sensitive, emerging, and/or mega-church claptrap with Scripture and statements of learned and godly Christians past and present. I only thought I’d had a bad go when a secretly coordinated campaign succeeded in provoking my resignation as a congregation’s pastor. I did so largely to protect my family and still wonder if I did the right thing.

    I, too, have weighed my possible responses and am certain that I’ve not completed all that I *must* say, not to vent or for personal satisfaction, but because the souls of those who misunderstand the Gospel and its ministry and who seek to have their itching ears scratched are at stake.

    There is no one line of demarcation for similar instances, because each remains a separate event or series of events. The wronged parties must, of course, acknowledge any culpability in broken relationships and genuinely seek forgiveness and reconciliation. However, when our own olive branches are ignored and when others refuse to see or admit the harm they’ve done to individuals and to the body of Christ, how are we to sit by in silence?

14. 
    14 ZE said on December 6th, 2009:

    John,

    No, I do not. I’m not defending the people that did that. I don’t think ANYONE should receive those, regardless of whether or not they’re spreading the gospel.

    My point is not about the treatment. The treatment was wrong. Period. My point is the gospel is ALL that matters. The more you detract people away from it, the easier you’ve just made it for the enemy.

15. 
    15 Sha said on December 6th, 2009:

    I a so sorry for your family’s loss in the adoption. I cannot imagine how hard that must be. I am a member at New Spring and there is so much good happening there – people meeting and developing a life with Jesus, however, the people on staff and all members are humans and all make mistakes. From reading your post and the letter from New Spring it seems that a lot of mistakes have been made on both sides. Honestly, from reading your blog most mistakes were made by New Spring, but without seeing all correspondence first hand I cannot state that as fact, and at this point does it really matter. I do think that it would be best for all concerned if all parties would act like grown ups and shake hands and apologize for any wrong doing real or perceived and move on. I really pray that you and your family will be able to move on from this and not be damaged further. I know it sounds silly but speaking from personal experience the things that I hold on to don’t hurt those that I am angry at they only made me bitter and caused me problems. When I was 9 I was molested by a neighbor, as an adult with children of my own I ended up living across the street from this same neighbor. I obsessed about him for years and I would get angry and yell at him across our property lines. I acted like a class A nut. Was I justified, yes, but did it help me, no. Two years ago because of a sermon I heard at New Spring, I was able to forgive my neighbor. I let most of the anger go but I still had a little left. Earlier this year I approached my neighbor and told him I forgave him and invited him to church. He is an old man now and I told him he needs to get his heart right before he dies. Now when I see him outside, I no longer have chest pains, or shake with anger. I feel peace that can only come from giving a small portion of the love that Jesus has given to me. Trust me there is no better feeling than to feel the peace of Jesus in your heart. I will be praying for you and your family and for the staff of New Spring that you all can move on from this in a positive way. We all make mistakes and how we deal with others’ mistakes determines how ours will be dealt with. “Do unto Others”

16. 
    16 ZE said on December 6th, 2009:

    Sha,

    You just said more with your story than ANYTHING else that’s been said on here. Thank you for the reminder that Jesus is ALL that matters.

17. 
    17 John said on December 6th, 2009:

    ZE,

    If we don’t hold those accountable that preach the Gospel you open the door for the enemy to hurt the message. IF PN was receiveing these messages and not blocking them he should be asked why?

18. 
    18 Vc said on December 7th, 2009:

    “did you forget about the passage that talks about judgement”

    Nope… 1 Cor 5:11-12 are still there and pertinent. We are REQUIRED to judge those that act this way and not to associate with them if they call themselves believers.

19. 
    19 David Strickland said on December 7th, 2009:

    Sha, I’m sure there is a lot of good happening at NewSpring. I’ve seen it. But the way Satan works with churches is he takes a whole lot of good and mixes just a little bit of bad in with it. It’s like poison. No one will drink an entire cup of poison, but if you just put one little drop in someone’s Kool-Aid, that’s all it takes to kill them.

20. 
    20 Jeremy said on December 7th, 2009:

    I’m not really seeking to get involved in this debate, but I did want to clarify something about Twitter:

    Just because a particular Twitter username is mentioned, does not mean that it will always show up in that person’s home feed, unless they are following the person that mentioned them. Now, this information can be accessed by clicking the “Mentions” link, but usually someone has to explicitly check for mentions for them to show up. I can’t say whether or not Perry checks this or not, however.

    I could be wrong, but this is how Twitter’s online interface behaves for me. Some clients can be set to automatically check for mentions, but not all that I have used have that functionality.

    I don’t have a significant amount of followers, but I found it surprising that the first time I checked the “Mentions,” I was greeted with many, many tweets directed towards me that I did not respond to.

    Hopefully, this information will be helpful.

21. 
    21 keitho said on December 7th, 2009:

    I am growing weary of people on this blog saying that “so much good is done at Newspring” and “leaders are not perfect” as if these notions make disgraceful, deceitful and possibly criminal activity somehow OK.

    If you go to Newspring, you should ask and expect better from your leadership. Based on the comments in this thread, it appears even the Newspring supporters expect better for themselves.

    Jesus is all that matters. Why can’t you expect your leadership to lead as if this were true?

22. 
    22 Sylvia said on December 7th, 2009:

    Brad, et al. “This crusade” is destroying him? Actual PEOPLE have tried to destroy him, people who need to be held accountable. Who the heck tries to destroy someone for disagreeing with him on a blog?
    It is not cool to ask someone to stop defending the Gospel because it stirs up evil people.
    If a blogger is only offending godly people, he will only receive godly responses to his criticism. Even if someone does commit libelous character assassination on his website, it does not excuse the types of tactics that were used on Mr Duncan.
    People capable of doing this kind of damage to Mr Duncan’s life are capable of doing it to other people, people perhaps much less equipped to deal with it. Perhaps this has already happened.
    Rather than asking him to stop, we should be grateful that someone is doing this work. Now that evil–in the body of Christ– has been exposed, are we really asking that it be re-concealed rather than rooted out? Do we really want to leave it alone, not knowing where it will manifest itself next? I think that it is wrong to suggest such a thing. It is cowardly to blame the victim and side with the perpetrator, and it has the potential of putting many more people in danger.

23. 
    23 ZE said on December 7th, 2009:

    I was thinking last night that there are characters in scripture that remind me of the author of this blog: Pharisees.

24. 
    24 Sylvia said on December 7th, 2009:

    If one of Jesus’ disciples spent his free time making up stories about the pharisees having gay sex with each other, what do you think He would do?

25. 
    25 John said on December 7th, 2009:

    ZE calls JDuncan a Pharisee, of course, he probably learned that from Perry Noble and the host of other church planters that steamroll over anyone who gets in the way of their “vision”.

26. 
    26 Jared Wilson said on December 7th, 2009:

    A dude has his life and family devastated and he gets called a psychopath and a Pharisee. What a stellar advertisement for the culture of Newspring Church you commenters are.

    Do you realize you’re only proving the critics’ point — that your church fosters animosity and belligerence?

    Even if you think your senior leadership did nothing wrong or didn’t know — okay — but thinking a guy who’s had this stuff happen to him has no right to be vocally angry or upset is ridiculous.

27. 
    27 Chase said on December 7th, 2009:

    I haven’t seen anyone address Jim W’s comment above, which surprises me, since it’s so blasphemous. How dare you question someone’s salvation. It’s not something we have to prove to man, salvation is a gift from God. You have no right to question whether someone is truly saved or not, that’s between them and God.

28. 
    28 ZE said on December 7th, 2009:

    Sylvia,

    I think he would do what Perry did: I think he would not allow them to be in their position anymore.

    Then he would forgive them and move on. I just think it’s time for that. By the way, I’m in NO way connected to NewSpring. I don’t even live in the same state, have never visited, never met Perry, nor do I ever intend to. I came across this blog from a link from someone else. I just think it’s silly to dedicate ALL of this time just to tear someone down, or even explain your story. He’s not defending the gospel. He’s defending himself. Forgive Perry and NewSpring and stop this nonsense. THAT is the gospel if he’s so concerned about defending it.

29. 
    29 ZE said on December 7th, 2009:

    I won’t be posting here anymore. I will commit to pray for this situation that God will work it out, put grace and mercy in the hearts of ALL of those involved and that there will be restoration, healing, and forgiveness felt on all sides.

30. 
    30 John said on December 7th, 2009:

    ZE,

    You’ve made your point and also hurled insults along the way, You should move on and go Pharisee hunting somewhere else, and you also don;t answer questions in a logical way so there really is no where to go with you.

31. 
    31 Griffin said on December 8th, 2009:

    Mr. Duncan my heart goes out to you and your family for the egregious acts that these fake “christians” have committed upon you. I do not attend church and have a hard time forming any sort of religious beliefs. I get invited quite often by friends to attend Newspring “church” but everytime I try to read something about it there are always 3 negative stories for every 1 positive. Once again I may not be religious but using foul language and posting pornographic material on emails and such just doesn’t seem very holy to me.

32. 
    32 Jim W said on December 8th, 2009:

    Hey, Chase, wake up and smell the coffee. “By their fruits shall you know them”. Remember that verse? Their fruit is rotten. It stinks. Therefore, I doubt. Maybe you should look up the definition of blasphemy before you go accusing someone of it. Because you just accused me of exactly what I accuse them of. How does that make you better?

33. 
    33 Alex L said on December 13th, 2009:

    Dr. Duncan,
    I attend Newspring “Church” and I was shocked when I heard this. I doubt I will be going back. I feel that this story needs to be heard by everyone at Newspring. This sunday I logged on Newspring’s web chat and simply asked, “Whats going on with that Maxwell guy,” and I got booted out of the chat and now they refuse to let me back in. I feel like Newspring is being hypocritical by refusing someone looking for answers. Newspring is only worried about what others think of them instead of what GOD thinks of them. Dr. Duncan, I am sorry about your ordeal, but it helped me realize that I need to look for another church. I mean if this guy is on there leadership team, what does that say about Perry and everyone who hired him?

34. 
    34 JB said on December 13th, 2009:

    Dr. Duncan,

    I hate that this situation has happened, mostly for your wife who I’m sure at times this has been unbearable for. I don’t understand why the need to be such a critic of a church your not even part of. If you are so against the teachings and concerned for the people attending, why not start a church across the street and preach the bible the way you feel God wants it preached? I think your blog against NS and PN is wrong. That doesn’t mean their 100% correct. I just don’t find where all these anti church blogs are furthering the gospel. I am against what this guy Maxwell has done. It was wrong. What started out to be juvenile behavior quickly escalated into something serious and scary. You seem to be very interested in what and when PN and NS staffers knew about what Maxwell and his buddies were doing. What I find interesting is we know from your own detailed timeline what and when you knew things. Why, why, why, didn’t you put a stop to it immediately? I just don’t get it. I’m not saying Maxwell and his buddies weren’t wrong, and nobody but PN and NS knows what/when they knew stuff, but you knew and watched and waited. If someone took any part of my identity I would be on it right then! You might not have easily been able to shut down the twitter account but you too could have sent then a message immediately threatening legal action if it wasn’t stopped. It’s almost like the police waiting for someone to actually be killed so they can get a murder charge instead of the conspiracy charge. I also lost respect for the validity to your claims with the 1.5-3 million dollars. You somewhat had me until that point. In fact, I bet you regret that. I hope you and your family find peace. I hope PN and NS make right if/how they have wronged you and I hope you make right if/how you have wronged PN/NS. We are supposed to all be on the same team. Satan is lovin this. Lets get back to pleasing God!

35. 
    35 Tommy F said on December 13th, 2009:

    JB,

    You wrote: “I also lost respect for the validity to your claims with the 1.5-3 million dollars. You somewhat had me until that point.”

    I bet many people agree with your point. I think NS had hoped JDuncan would just go away when they embarrassed him with this figure. Here’s why it’s not quite as embarrassing as they want to make it.

    What’s a lost adoption worth? (lots, I’d say).
    If not 1.5m or 3m, what would you have asked for? (lots, I’d say).
    Why did NS ask for terms of a settlement? (because they needed to consider keeping this quiet?)
    Shouldn’t the attorney have immediately said: “No settlement. No money. No way. Never.”? (He needed to let NS consider it, since they wanted to keep it quiet?)
    Why did they mention a benevolence fund? (Because they considered using it?)
    Why did they contact their insurance company? (Because they considered using it?)

    There may be a different answer, but it’s odd that NS doesn’t offer one.

36. 
    36 JB said on December 13th, 2009:

    Tommy F,

    I’ll do my best to answer your questions. First I’d say NS probably hoped JDuncan had never come along or at least when he did come and made his case against the preaching and style of NS that he would of left then. I don’t know if the money is embarrassing, I just don’t think its right in the christian world. Now you can say what Maxwell and others did wasn’t right in the christian world and I agree. Two wrong don’t make a right, it just may make one rich. What’s a lost adoption worth? Really? I love kids, I don’t think you could put a value on that. I don’t think money makes that feel better either. The other thing is there isn’t proof yet, just suspicion that NS staff had something to do with the adoption coming apart. The rest of the questions I think fall under the understanding that this is now a legal issue. Church’s and Pastors get sued, that is why they have insurance. Lawyers have a protocal that they go by and since a lawyer is handling the situation he/she will handle it in the best way they see fit, doesn’t mean NS will go along with the recommendation. One thing to remember is the PN didn’t start ignoring JDuncan when this all came to pass, he started ignoring him and other critical bloggers the moment they arive on the seen. I will tell you this, I know alot of pastors, my dad included, and I have seen pastor after pastor torn apart in the church. When people in my dads church went after him they spread allegations that my mom was a lesbian, that my brother and I were sleeping around the church, I even had a grown man come up behind me a teen and hit me because he was convinced by others who were lying that I was trying to have relations with his daughter(and I’ll tell you 15 years later now none of it was true), our property did get vandalized, a group of men with an off duty officer tried to forcefully remove my dad and his belongings from the church, and more, much more. Many of my pk friends dad’s had simular if not worse things happen. So why didn’t all of them sue? You think PN hasn’t been wronged at all in his time in ministry? How about your Pastor? Why don’t all of us christians who have been wronged by each other sue? and sue big like 1.5-3 million dollars worth? Because it doesn’t further the kingdom! At the beginning and end of the day it isn’t about us! Its all about HIM! I know Maxwell and his buddies were wrong! I don’t know what the rest of NS staff knew or did, but I do know I don’t agree with JDuncan either. These blogs attacking pastors and churchs are wrong! I don’t see it anywhere in the bible that Jesus, Paul, or anyone else went around attacking other churchs. Paul did correct churchs that he had his hand and did so directly to them. Lucky for us his correction to them made it in the bible to give us direction in how we should behave in our church bodies. I hate that any of this has happened. I hate that I even know about it. I stumbled across it and now it just makes me sad and brings back bad memories of people fighting against each other instead of fighting the good fight together for our God. Hope this helps!

37. 
    37 Ian said on December 14th, 2009:

    “One thing to remember is the PN didn’t start ignoring JDuncan when this all came to pass, he started ignoring him and other critical bloggers the moment they arive on the seen.”

    I’m not sure if this is true. I don’t know this for a fact, but, I believe that Pastors that are often a target of critical bloggers, who also claim they ignore them, may not actually read themselves but assign staff memebers to do the reading for them.

    Anyway, if someone asked me to abritrate this entire thing, and no one hasn’t, I would act as if this whole lawyer thing never happened, that Newspring didn’t attempt to get this story the media, that Jduncan didn’t ask for a dime and I would go to Newspring/Perry Noble and say apologize to this man and family. Then I would say to Perry Noble take a chill pill when it comes to “critics” and preach the Word brother. Then I would speak to the people at Newspring and suggest that they start taking ownership in their church and establish and accountability structure for their Pastor. If they begin the process I would tell JDuncan to take a chill pill on the PN blog posts.

38. 
    38 sam said on December 14th, 2009:

    JB,
    Perry Noble by his own confession responded to the bloggers when they first came on the scene. AND even though he says he doesnt respond to bloggers now, one need only to listen to his sermons, read his blog, or even watch his sessions from Newspring’s conference, Unleash to see him DIRECTLY address bloggers. Lets just put this on the table first and foremost.
    Paul did correct churches. He was pretty firm with the Corinthian church even telling them them that they should judge others within the church(1 cor 5). In Galatians we see Paul telling them they have abandoned the gospel and then Paul goes on to “attack” the judaizers by telling them they should emasculate themselves. Pretty harsh and dare i say judgmental by todays standards. Paul even “attacked” and rebuked Peter in front of others.
    And have you read Revelation? In Chapters 2 and 3 Jesus “attacks” certain churches.
    Why are these blogs wrong? Millions of Christians are being led astray by false teachers. Are you saying that God isnt using some of these blogs written by people truly gifted in discernment to protect his sheep from some of these wolves in sheep’s clothing “pastors”? We are in a time where church planting has become the hot “thing”. Anyone can bypass seminary and training in a local church and start a church plant and appoint themselves a “pastor”. Gary Lamb was a prime example. He was not biblically qualified to be a pastor in the first place. These pastors set themselves up as the ultimate authority in the church with little or no accountability save a board of overseers where the same pastors are on each other’s board of overseers. Newspring ignores the biblical mandate for the church to be governed by a plurality of elders. This lack of accountability led to this matter against Mr Duncan to get out of hand.
    Lastly JB, you willfully chose to read this blog. Please dont play the martyr.