Live by slang, die by slang
Posted: September 2nd, 2009 | Author: James Duncan | Tags: Cooper, Twitter | 37 Comments »Someone get Brad Cooper a concordance or Bible dictionary. He offers this description of God’s work tonight:
God is so Amazing…. He continues to peel back new layers of Awesomeness @ Fuse*…. Tonight equated to BangORang!
I’m not even going to provide a link, but you really don’t want to know what that last word means. Let’s just say that it was too much for even the guardians of World of Warcraft.
I’m certain that Cooper didn’t have the very worst definition in mind, but when you go to the culture for words to describe God, you’re just as likely to curse him as to praise him. No youth pastor should come within a hundred miles of using this word.
Words fail me, though not as seriously as they seem to fail Cooper.
UPDATE: Commentators have pointed out that his Fuse audience would have understood the word to come from Disney’s Hook movie, and, in that context, would mean cool. See the comments for more.
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Why am I not surprised…
I’m sure it’s on the same line as “Big Audacious Mighty Fortress”
Cooper’s love of the world knows no boundaries.
What does the Scriptures say about living in a way so that the world cannot condemn us? Where was that verse? I can’t seem to remember Cooper and crew teaching that one at NS/Fuse. It must be in my seeker-sensitive manual somewhere buried under the “hip” and “cool” instructions for drawing people to church!
Let’s hope that God continues to peel back layers at Fuse. What might be at its center?
BangORang comes from the movie “Hook,” it’s what all the lost boys say when referring to something really cool or amazing. I don’t know what definition you were given for this word, but I would most certainly not assume that was the definition that BCoop meant. Sometimes these “Urban Dictionaries” give out outrageous definitions (i.e. My high school wouldn’t let us wear “studded” belts because they looked it up and thought it meant “I want sex”). This is one I wouldn’t go crazy over, BAMF has a very obvious meaning, BangORang just comes from a goofy movie made in the early 90s.
Sophie,
Yes, Hook is a source, but it’s not the only source. The meaning is sufficiently muddled or ambiguous that the managers of World of Warcraft wouldn’t let it on their system.
I don’t think we’re going crazy over this, or at least I hope we don’t. Cooper used a word that I had never seen. When I looked for a definition, I found that the word was sullied, though through no fault of Cooper’s. My point is that when he draws from culture new words to describe God, he draws everything that comes with it.
Cooper’s using the word is not evil. It’s just dumb (after BAMF, you’d think he’d be more careful).
Do we need to go looking in the Disney film vault for good words for worship anyway? Were all the words in the Psalms taken?
Sophie,
One more thing. I agree that Urban Dictionary is an even worse source of information than Wikipedia. What caught my attention was the discussion of the word in the World of Warcraft forums, where it was thought to be questionable enough to keep out. If they won’t touch it, it probably shouldn’t be in church either.
Do you honestly think Cooper doesn’t know that it has a bad connotation?
95% sure he doesn’t know, though 100% sure he didn’t use it in that sense.
I’d be interested to know where he first heard the word. I doubt he spends much time watching old Disney movies.
How did he check out what it meant if he didn’t know, or did he just use it because he heard his Fuse kids using it? It’s not a widely used term (I’d never heard it until yesterday), and Google points you in one of two directions–to Urban Dictionary, or to WoW, which makes clear that the term is suspect.
Oh come on! seriously?!! Brad puts it in context of “awesome” which is what the word meant in Peter Pan. PETER PAN!
Brad doesn’t come across as a World of Warcraft guy. This is the first post that has honestly pissed me off. This is a ridiculous and unfounded accusation.
Even if your point is that by using the word, it could have another meaning to someone else your argument doesn’t hold up because of context. Plus, there isn’t an American kid out there that doesn’t knows that BangoRang is what Hook used to say to mean awesome!
I hate when ya’ll post stuff like this. I start agreeing with you on some things and then you totally blow it with this.
I actually know that this is one of his favorite movies (my roommates informed me) and he refers to it quite often at FUSE. I understand that it gained an innapropriate connotation, but his youth know that it’s coming from this film and I think that holds some weight.
I’m sorry to say it, but I agree with MW on this one. This was a silly post.
I just texted three of my kids asking what BangORang meant and every one of them said 1) “isn’t that from Peter pan?” 2) “It means cool I think. I saw it on a Blue-Ray commercial for Disney. I think it is from Peter Pan.” 3) (a World of WarCraft player) “It’s from Peter Pan and means awesome. It’s on all the Blu-Ray commercials. It’s also something from World of Warcraft that I don’t really want to explain. Why? Where did you here it?” After giving him the context he texted. “I’m sure he means awesome.”
The cool thing about this is that we allow you to disagree, and are more than willing to discuss this with you. We could just decree our word final and allow no discussion of it.
Now, I’ve never heard the term until today, so it doesn’t mean alot to me. Going on Copper’s track record, I’d guess that he was trying to be a little edgy with it. Will it send him to hell? No. Was it the wisest choice of words? Probably not.
I just checked a few of my Blu-Ray movies and two of them had a Blu-Ray Disney commercial at the beggining that starts off with Peter pan yelling “BangORang!”
This is why it is important to research before you accuse. The most resonable explination is that He saw Peter Pan recently or saw the Disney commercial and is quoting from it.
Allow me to quote Duncan’s original post:
“I’m certain that Cooper didn’t have the very worst definition in mind, but when you go to the culture for words to describe God, you’re just as likely to curse him as to praise him. No youth pastor should come within a hundred miles of using this word.”
Don’t go overboard with the anger here guys. Duncan gives Cooper the same benefit of the doubt that you do.
Downing,
I see him being edgy at times but not to the degree that this is accusing him of. I honestly think he was using the Peter Pan version. I would go as far as saying that he doesn’t know the World of Warcraft meaning.
To those of you who don’t know anything about World of Warcraft it is a game that you pay monthly to play. It involves MASSIVE amounts of time to play, because once you start in on your game you cannot leave the game for hours until you are finished. This is because other people are playing with you as a team and you can’t abandon your team. You can’t just play every once in a while. it consumes peoples lives that play it. I have a couple of kids who play it and it is an addiction.
For Brad to know about that word in War of Warcraft he would have to know the game and play it. the kids that don’t play this game know nothing about it. I only know a little and what I know is from asking the kids. They would never have told me about BangORang.
I seriously doubt Brad has the time to play or even learn about World of Warcraft.
Downing,
The only culture that knows that word to mean anything bad is the World of Warcraft culture. That is about 1% of all kids if that.
If we can’t go to culture then maybe we should stop reading our Bibles that are translated into our culture’s language and start all reading the Greek and Hebrew. Don’t use culture as a fallback for your argument on this one. It doesn’t work. There is nothing wrong with speaking the language of the people. You can’t communicate with words that don’t mean anything anymore or with words that are out of date and weaker in meaning in the same way that you can with words that the culture knows and relates to. I’m not saying we should use bad cultural language, but the language he is using connects. Give him some space. Especially on this one.
But see MW, this is the exact point Duncan is making. When you history shows that you use terms like BAMF…you leave yourself open to interpretations like this. “Live by salng, die by slang”. Regardless of what Cooper meant in this particular situation, he clearly needs to be a lot more careful with his tongue.
The key to this is in the title of the post and in the line that Downing requoted.
I’m relieved that the dominant definition is from Disney (though see my 9:17 post re. that), but my point still holds. Brad has gone to culture to try to be relevant. He meant cool, but he also used a word that has a lot of other worldly baggage. If you’re going to use culture’s dictionary to refer to God, you need to be very careful. To repeat, if you want to live by slang, you might also die by slang.
MW, it never crossed my mind that BC plays WoW, nor is it at all relevant. My point is that the word was too radioactive even for them. It was below their standards, yet not below Cooper’s.
Downing,
If he was giving him the benefit of the doubt he wouldn’t have posted something that causes others to doubt Cooper. You can’t post something and then say, oh, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. By posting this it becomes slander and gossip.
MW, did you miss this line: “I’m certain that Cooper didn’t have the very worst definition in mind”?
Where’s the gossip and slander? Are we not sure that he actually used the word?
I guess I need to be publicly rebuked for saying “My sins were paid for on the bloody cross.”
I mean, shouldn’t I have known that the word ‘bloody’ is used as an obscenity by some people?
That would be an odd way of saying it, JT.
I don’t want to put words in your mouth, Duncan, but it sounds like you are saying:
“Brad Cooper didn’t mean to use the word ‘BangORang’ to mean something obscene, but I searched for it on Google and found an online game forum where people used the term as something disgusting… so Brad should have known better.”
Did I get that right?
Jt, how bout “A guy known to use perverse slang appears to do so again.”
How does this blog Glorify Jesus…..Anyone wanna tackle that question or would you like to create another discussion and be the drama queens you are?
BangORang!!!–whoops I guess that is a cuss word. Get a life and if this is your life than that is worse that being involved in World of Warcraft–SERIOUSLY!!
Let’s be clear. I did not ever think that BC intended to use the word in its worst definition.
He used a word that was novel to me, and is probably novel to many other people. I tried to find out what the word meant, and used an obscure search engine called Google to help me (some of you may have heard of it). THAT is what told me that the word was tainted. (That’s what I did when I saw his first BAMF reference, too.)
My post is intended to point out that when you search for cool, hip words, you may get more than you bargained for. Live by slang, die by slang, as someone once said.
Like I asked earlier, were all the words in the Psalms busy last night?
Brad was just tired probably since he just got back from a MISSION’S TRIP TO KENYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But God forbid this blog to ever say anything positive.
James, the very fact that you admit that Cooper didn’t mean to use BangORang as an obscenity is what makes this post pointless.
Can you really call him out for using a word that a minority have corrupted? On a message board for World of Warcraft?
JT, after BAMF, he doesn’t really get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to using novel words. I looked it up and reported what I found.
The point, which is made in the post’s title, is not what BC meant by the word. The point is that he used a slang word to refer to God’s work, which, if you google it, turns out to mean more than BC probably thought.
Also, I’m not saying that WoW corrupted the word. Their managers decided that it was too corrupt for them to use. That’s why I referred to them. If anything, they’re my allies in this argument.
Most of you have lost the plot. Re-read the original post. Not for what you think it says, but for what it does.
BCoop used a word that has multiple meanings: Disney’s benign one, and WoW’s toxic one. On this google agrees.
When BCoop uses the word to describe God’s work at a worship service, he is (whether he likes it or not) using the word in a public forum that could be misread.
No one has answered JDuncan’s question: why use words that have multiple meanings (some acceptable, some not), when there are dozens of words that serve the purpose much better? Certainly not as hip, cool, or BAMF. But, much better in communicating God’s work.
MW,
Earlier in the day you reported that 33% of your sample (one out of three) knew the alternate meaning of the word. You write that he said, “It’s also something from World of Warcraft that I don’t really want to explain.” Your correspondent knew it was so offensive that he or she didn’t even want to talk about it.
Doesn’t this completely validate my argument? I’m not just making up stuff here.
Clearly, the word has been culturally defiled. If even your kids know it, it’s a safe bet that many of BC’s folk know as well.
Duncan,
No because I asked someone that I KNEW played WoW. I know one or two kids out of the hundreds of kids that I know that actually play that game. If you were taking a stats class they would say that that would be a flawed stat because I had the intention of asking someone who played WoW. Plus I only asked three kids. The main point was that they all knew the real meaning which was “awesome.”
You are holding someones name up and causing others to doubt their integrity. Would it really be so difficult to do a post like this differently? How about a post with no name that says “What would you think if you heard someone say this…?” Don’t tell them who said it but figure out what people come up with. Throw in your two sense and watch how it unfolds. Most people on here that agree with you only agree because they don’t like Brad or Perry, and the ones that disagree are the ones that like them. Take the biased out and have a real and nuetral discussion. You know me well enough to know that I will try to be fair (especially lately), but this post isn’t fair and your thesis is way too flawed.
You and every other person on this planet uses the language of your culture. I think you judge the language of the youth culture too harshly. The youth culture is a free spirit. It uses the same language to mean different things. That’s ok. They know context well enough to know what Brad or anyone else means when they say something. Your culture doesn’t like that because you want everything to look black and white. This culture doesn’t like or see truth in black and white. They see gray most everywhere. That’s why it takes men like Brad to do the job. Someone willing to reach into the culture, love it, live it, research it, etc. and speak to the kids in a way that connects to them and at the same time be able to give them a black and white truth on the gospel.
By saying this I am not saying I agree with every little thing Brad does. I don’t agree with every little thing I do, but you need to back off of this guy. I like that he reaches the kids with their language. BAMF might have gone too far, so what? Learn and move on. Should we create a blog about your flaws or areas where you may not be wise? What if we did? would it bother you? would it really make you learn or would it drive you insane to ever try to live up to these kinds of standards? That’s my point. “No one is righteous, no not even one.” Rom. 3.
I know you are trying to make points on this blog and some are really good and I don’t even mind some of the naming that you have done with pastors who have called themselves God’s but are false teachers. But Brad doesn’t deserve that kind of treatment. I really think you need to take his name off the blog for good unless he starts preaching another gospel. This kind of language is not deserving of this kind of post.
To All,
P.S. If you never heard BangORang before you either haven’t lived because you never saw Pan or you are too old to remember. You aren’t American if you haven’t seen Pan and don’t know BangORang.
I honestly couldn’t believe it when I saw that people didn’t know what BangORang was. That’s like not knowing what groovy meant in the 60′s. I thought everyone had heard BangORang before. Ya’ll need to grow young again. Go watch some Pan dudes!
MW – Well said. Your entire post is right on with my thoughts about this blog. I was reading Romans last night so I smiled when I read your post
I think I might go rent “Hook” today!
MW,
You say, “I think you judge the language of the youth culture too harshly. The youth culture is a free spirit.” Oh, so that makes everything OK? They’re free to do whatever they want to in church, and they’re free to refer to God however they want just because they enjoy being free? This is really one of the themes that drives the critiques on PP. We don’t think that we have as much freedom as perhaps you do to treat and talk of God however we want.
I’m astonished that you appeal to the postmodern mindset to defend this nonsense. You write, “Your culture doesn’t like that because you want everything to look black and white. This culture doesn’t like or see truth in black and white. They see gray most everywhere.” If we’re seeing the truth as gray, isn’t that our problem, not the truth’s? Actually, you’re acting like the black and white policeman here. You insist that Brad’s vocabulary can ONLY draw its meaning from Walt Disney. Why not relax and admit that the meaning of the word might not be so black and white? It’s so freeing, I think you’ll find.
You say that we should not be paying any attention to Cooper, but in your third paragraph (the most revealing, I think) you say that he has an extra special ability to work against the conventions of my culture (whatever that means) to reach and disciple a new generation of believers. This is a man who’s introducing the faith to scores of impressionable teenagers at one of the largest and most influential churches in the country. And that’s why we should pay him no attention? I don’t think so.
Your argument here contains the seeds of its own refutation, which becomes apparent as soon as your fourth paragraph. After arguing that we can use whatever language we need to, you then extend that logic to Cooper’s unapologetic use of BAMF to describe God’s house. You say that BAMF “might” have gone to far. Are you really not sure about that, MW? You throw up your hands and ask, “so what?”
“Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.” That’s what.
Let’s assume for a minute that BangORang has no alternate meanings, that its only usage is in the Disney movie. Does that help? Not much.
The first thing that struck me when I read Cooper’s tweet was that it was so juvenile (yes, I know he’s leading juveniles, but he’s supposed to be leading them, not mimicking them). He’s trying to describe a profound work of God by resorting to nonsense words. What is it about this leader’s mindset that sends him to Disneyland for the language to praise God? Why wasn’t “awesome” enough? If it really is awesome, say so and stop speaking. We need no other words.
Beyond the word’s unimpressive origins, it’s empty. What does it actually mean? What’s its definition? I’m not talking about pointing to Peter Pan’s usage of the word. You’re assuming that because he uses it when he’s happy that it means cool or awesome. Usage, however, is not the same as meaning, though it can provide clues to it. Can someone point me to a dictionary (besides U.D.) that defines what this word means?
That’s what I was looking for the other evening. Perhaps we must assume that the word means nothing, which may have been what made it such an easy target for an alternate meaning.
So what are we left with? A youth pastor describing God’s work with a meaningless epithet. Is that any better than describing him with a derogatory epithet?
Isaiah 40:18 asks, “To whom, then, will you compare God?
What image will you compare him to?”
Perhaps using words that God actually used to describe himself would be the safest way to do that, not the empty words of an excitable fictional Disney character.
Duncan, you said: “The point, which is made in the post’s title, is not what BC meant by the word. The point is that he used a slang word to refer to God’s work, which, if you google it, turns out to mean more than BC probably thought.”
Thanks. I’ve been waiting for you to finally admit that the point of this blog isn’t to question what your targets actually mean, but rather to criticize them for some imaginary message that you’ve twisted out of their words.
JT, it’s even better than that. You could deduce from the 9:13 comment today that I’m criticizing him for something he DIDN’T say.
Isn’t that fun?