Looking again at NewSpring’s big announcement 29

Now that you’ve had a chance to read both sides, it might be helpful to take another look at NewSpring’s big announcement yesterday.

In February an employee of the church met with this individual

I didn’t start blogging about NewSpring until March, and this meeting was April 1. If they start their post with such an easily refutable error, how much confidence can you have in what else they write?

The “employee of the church” was Brad Cooper, who had asked me to meet with him. Brad is a senior leader in the church; he’s a little more than an employee. Why hide his name? Is it shameful to have met me?

“This individual” is me. J-A-M-E-S-D-U-N-C-A-N. It’s not that difficult.

in an attempt to resolve any misunderstandings and listen to his concerns.

That’s news to me. We met for coffee for almost two hours to chew the fat. Afterwards, Cooper said he enjoyed the meeting and wanted to do it again.

Since that meeting, the frequency and intensity of the critical blogs have increased.

Is someone keeping statistics? I thought they didn’t read this.

Why would this be a surprise? Do they assume that meeting a person means that the meetee will no longer have any reason to disagree with their ideas?

In the summer of 2009, one NewSpring employee and two volunteers,

It was three volunteers (Elgin, Milstead, Dickson). Who aren’t they counting?

acting on their own accord and unbeknownst to the Church

Except that it was widely known within the church. Two full-time leaders subscribed to it.

began a wholly inappropriate campaign directed at the author of the blog site.

I agree, but do Duffey and Moorehead? They seem to have had a very high tolerance for the inappropriate.

None of their actions were known to,

Except for Moorehead and their communications director.

or condoned by,

Except by Duffey and Moorehead.

the Church or its leadership in any way.

Wilson knew about it in enough of a way to prompt him (or someone) to call their attorney.

When the Church’s leadership was contacted by the author of the blog site regarding the activities of these three individuals,

I have four signed confessions. Who are they not counting?

A NewSpring executive pastor and his wife adopted a child that, coincidentally,

There are a lot of coincidences in this story.

the author of the blog site and his wife were also seeking to adopt.

A bit more than seeking. We’d been selected months earlier and drove to the hospital with a car seat to pick the baby up to bring him home.

Adoption is a legal process and it is a matter of public record that the Church was not a party to this adoption

Of course it’s a legal process. That’s what adoption is. How does that help their argument?

They have a public record of their non-involvement. Can we see it? I thought that, when done properly, there are no public records of adoptions. They’re sealed and are very definitely private records.

Do churches regularly adopt children? How are churches parties to adoptions?

nor did the Church attempt to influence its outcome in any way.

Who knows? Maxwell seemed pretty confident that the outcome had been influenced. Milstead did a little victory dance to celebrate some sort of influence.

On October 31st, the author of the blog site emailed the Church broadly outlining complaints of harassment and interference with his adoption efforts,

Oops. Someone didn’t check this out. On October 31, I emailed Wilson, pointing out that the leadership couldn’t just dismiss Maxwell as a loose canon. I didn’t mention the adoption at all in this email; at this point I didn’t even know that Wilson was involved in the adoption.

I did email Julie Dixon on October 26 to ask if she’d meet with me to help me understand why Milstead seemed to have implicated her in the parent switch. Three days later she replied to me and told me that she was withdrawing a verbal agreement she’d made by phone earlier in the day (at which point she hadn’t read my email) to meet with me the next week.

Curiously, the subject line of the email had changed from “We need to talk” to “Re: note from Julie Dixon.” Why would Dixon change the subject line to remind herself that this was her note? NewSpring seems to have an email forwarding protocol where staffers change the subject line of an email to tell the recipient whose message they’re forwarding. For example, my message to Cooper on June 29 was titled, “Request for a meeting.” When I got the response from Wilson a week later, it was titled, “Re: Fwd: Request for a meeting – from James Duncan.” Cooper or his assistant apparently altered the subject line to tell Wilson that the message was coming from me.

I’m speculating, but see if this makes sense: On the 29th Dixon forwards Wilson my email from the 26th about Milstead’s statement because she knows Wilson is a player. Wilson’s assistant filters his emails and alters the subject line to “Re: note from Julie Dixon” and sends it on to Wilson. Wilson responds to Dixon, who has told him that we’re going to be meeting the next week, and suggests that she cancel it.

On the 31st, Wilson has two messages from me in his in box. One directly from me, and the other forwarded to him from Dixon. He seems to have conflated the two complaints into one. Remember, I did not talk to Wilson about adoption on October 31. In fact, I have never mentioned the word adoption in my messages to Wilson, just in case he really didn’t know what had happened that day in July.

For the church not being a party to the adoption or influencing it in any way, it is interesting that my email to Dixon was interpreted as if it were directed to the church.

Back to the message:

Those grievances also included his belief that the church knowingly and willingly allowed this harassment and even encouraged it.

Except that Duffey had encouraged it, and Moorehead did allow it. At least, he didn’t stop it.

a demand for payment of one and a half million dollars ($1,500,000.00) if he was allowed to share the pulpit with Pastor Perry during the Church’s weekend services or through various other “public options” in order to denounce the Church, its leadership, and its “culture of hatred.”

Here’s what I actually wrote:

  1. Perry Noble acknowledges (in a sermon, at a press conference, or on a blog post that links to a coordinated statement on my blog) that a significant culture of hate existed within his church, and that Maxwell, Moorehead and the other volunteers acted consistently with the expectations of that culture, which he rejects and apologizes for.
  2. Noble and I together outline the general contours of the harassment campaign, including the targeting of my family, and the racist, homosexual and generally vile content of Maxwell’s writings.
  3. Noble and I announce the emotional distress that Maxwell and Milstead intended to inflict on my wife and me after the failed adoption.
  4. Noble and I announce that the church has generously compensated my family for our trouble, though not the amount of compensation.

If can find “denounce” or “share the pulpit” in this list, please let me know.

In my conversation with the attorney, I told him that I assumed that coordinated blog posts was the easiest and most likely way that this might be done, so when you read the “together” in the last three options, that’s the assumption that I’m working with.

You might be curious why I didn’t want the amount of the compensation revealed. The whole idea of this option was reconciliation and peace. We wanted the church to be happy that they were compensating us, and we didn’t want to have to keep defending ourselves or the church for the settlement, be it large or small.

The Church, of course, rejected both offers.

They rejected it, but not “of course.” They flew their attorney in from Texas to listen to my offers. They took more than two weeks to decide on how they’d respond to the offers, and they came back to me two more times to clarify the shape of the offers. For an “of course” decision, they wasted a lot of money on their attorney’s travel and hours.

On the follow-up phone call the day after our meeting, the attorney asked me for a script for what Noble would say in his announcement. The whole concept behind the proposal was that Noble would own the statement himself and would be saying it because he actually believed it, so I told him that it wouldn’t work unless Noble wrote the script himself. I gave him some ideas for what he could say, but I left the rest up to Noble.

On close examination, this statement falls apart. Nobody checked dates or emails, making telling and avoidable errors. If rejecting the offers was so “of course,” they had more than two weeks to prepare this statement. In the life of the church, it’s obviously an important one; they made its dissemination their top priority yesterday afternoon.

Who wrote this? Who checked it? Did the attorney look over it? Someone goofed.

To me, this looks like something that was put together at the last minute. Why wait so long to say no, unless you had been thinking about saying yes?

NewSpring Church will not be subjected to hollow and exaggerated threats

They voluntarily subjected themselves to the “threats” when they asked their attorney to meet with me. If you don’t want to be subjected to threats, don’t meet with me. Continue to ignore me.

I’m waiting for them to explain what is hollow and exaggerated. Did their liability insurance company think the same thing?

The Church is offering ministerial counseling to its former employee and two volunteers

Again, who aren’t they counting? I don’t know.

Pastor Perry and NewSpring continue to pray for all involved in this unfortunate situation.

Cool.

29 thoughts on “Looking again at NewSpring’s big announcement

  1. Tommy F. Dec 5, 2009 7:21 pm

    It’s really too bad they didn’t just release all the documents they had pertaining to this event. They must have reams of material where they investigated your claims and tried to stop the harrassment. Documents that show exactly what was done to you and when. Emails and letters expressing apologies for the 3 (I mean 4) individuals who harmed you.

    Oh. Except there is apparently none of this. Just an announcement that has some very obvious flaws, partial truths, errors, and omissions.

  2. Melanie Dec 5, 2009 9:59 pm

    I am curious why it matters that they didn’t state the names of those involved. Think about it, there are thousands of followers at Newspring. Releasing the names and actions of a few people out of the thousands of followers could put everyone in danger of getting attacked by more people who are not true followers of Christ. I think it is the right thing to do in this situation to explain that there were some vicious acts committed and the parties involved had been let go without mentioning anyone’s name. It has nothing to do with the shame of meeting with you or dealing with the offenders. It has to do with protecting all those involved. Honestly, if I had been involved in this on either side, I would appreciate having my name kept out of it for the safety of my family and friends. With all the names out in the open, you now have thousands of people who may or may not retaliate against one side or another. As a Christian, the safety of all those involved, including you and your family, should be priority. By naming names there is a possibility of more violence. I don’t care who it was that did what they did as long as I know they were held responsible for their actions which those three were. As far as those still there that knew about it, I am more curious as to see what is happening about that than worry about the three people who have already been punished on the church side and may have more coming from a legal standpoint. They don’t matter anymore. The only thing that matters now is resolving the issues and making sure their are measures in place to ensure people like that are not in control in that way again.

  3. Melanie Dec 5, 2009 10:08 pm

    The other issue I am somewhat confused on, and please understand that I am just trying to make sure I know what the whole story is, not discount that it happened, is that you make the statement that the campaign against you was widely known to the church. As I mentioned earlier, there are thousands of memebers and attenders at Newspring and a huge staff as well. It was not widely known that this was going on. Two leaders that suscribed to the Twitter account doesn’t mean everyone in a leadership position knew as well as the thousands of attenders, volunteers, and other staff. My other question is about the Twitter account itself. As you know, one page only shows a handful of posts by people you are following. Is there any proof that those two leaders who subscribed actually ever saw the posts that were being made or actually logged on very often to Twitter? I am just curious since I know that in my case I have had a Twitter account for about six months and haven’t actually logged back onto it in four months but I will still show up as a follower even if I am not logging on anymore. I know a lot of those leaders are following several hundred if not thousands of people. There is no guarantee that one particular person’s posts would have shown up admist the hundreds of other people’s posts. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I just want to know more information so I can make a good decision about my place at Newspring. I don’t think it is a decision I can make hastily without proper thought and questioning.

  4. Tommy F Dec 5, 2009 10:56 pm

    Melanie

    Do you follow people who discuss sex parties? Gay activity? Would you be impressed if leaders at NS did?

    Why were they following? Because they approved. They could have stopped it, but didn’t.

    JDuncan is a critic of NS, so he is an enemy. Enemies, according to NS, need to be fought and destroyed. It’s not a stretch, really, is it to believe that they followed because they thought it was funny to attack JDuncan?

  5. Paul Dec 6, 2009 12:01 am

    keep pressing on…many who have stood for biblical truth have suffered greatly, yet the fruit of their suffering lead to geat things for the faith (Wycliffe, Tyndale, Luther come to mind). My hope is that is mess will be used by God to bring repentance in the leadership at Newpsring, and those who support them.

  6. Pingback: Articles of Interest 12-05-09 | Onward, Forward, Toward...

  7. JD Dec 6, 2009 5:20 pm

    I am praying for you. I think that you seriously have some issues that you need to work out with God. I know for a fact that some of the things expressed in your side of these recent events are purely assumptions and have no business being told unless they are known to be factual. Especially some of the events surrounding your failed adoption. I know for a fact that it was solely the birth mother’s decision to choose the other family and she was not coersed or persuaded in any way whatsoever. I think the best thing for yo to do would be to pray about this and just GIVE IT ALL TO GOD. God will work this out and HE IS SOVERIEGN. I am praying for you.

  8. John Dec 6, 2009 6:27 pm

    JD,

    Was the forged resignation letter an assumption?

  9. Tommy F Dec 6, 2009 6:29 pm

    JD,

    Speaking of issues, JD.

    You wrote: “I know for a fact that it was solely the birth mother’s decision to choose the other family and she was not coersed or persuaded in any way whatsoever.”

    How can you know this “for a fact”? Have you interviewed her? Were you there? Of course, NS is going to claim this. But, JDuncan has a witness that says otherwise. So rather than call JDuncan a liar, why don’t you call his witness a liar? Again, you’re confusing the messenger with the message.

    Also, don’t you find it amazing that NS mentions the adoption at all? Why mention it? It’s a private matter – or was. Not anymore. This was really stupid on their part.

  10. karen Dec 6, 2009 7:55 pm

    I wish all Newspring fans would just not assume this guys is a nut. I have personally been on the “other side” with some the Newspring staff. They can be nasty, vile and full of hate. So much so that they had to apologize to me and my family. WAKE UP!!! start asking questions, demand answers. You just might be surpized just how far you DON’T get.

  11. KH Dec 7, 2009 11:27 am

    Seriously, JD? Seriously? You have the facts? Please, enlighten the rest of us. Because I would love to know where your “facts” came from. Also, I’m sure Dr. D just went running to the altar and hit his knees just because you, what with your infinite wisdom and all, thinks he has some issues he needs to work out with God. And the “I’m praying for you” that you just had to grit through your teeth? Please. It sounds like that would just be one more hateful act of harassment that Dr. D would have to endure from that loving community of NewSpring members.

    Oh, I’m sorry. Was my sarcasm too much for you? Apparently my appearance at NewSpring last Easter without my admission ticket was a little too much for your usher. I have never in my life been refused admission to a church because I didn’t have a TICKET. And never have I been subjected to so much disdain from a so-called Christian man because, oh my gosh, I didn’t read the website and KNOW that I needed a ticket before I came? What planet did I come from that I would dare show up at a church I’d never been to before and not know the proper protocol for visitors?? I.E.–Know your role and shut your hole. Unless of course, I felt the need to worship at the feet of Perry. Thanks, but no thanks. Me and my apparently ancient view of good ole’ Christian values will take a hike. By the way, the door did hit me in the rear on the way out. Gosh, NewSpring is just fantastic!

  12. Joanne Rink Dec 7, 2009 3:23 pm

    My family and I have been members of NewSpring for over 5 years. We have seen our three children grow spiritually there. We are so sorry, Dr. Duncan, for the way you and your family have been treated by the NS staff and some members! We are greatly disappointed and grieved by the nasty and illegal activity by these 4 members. We are disturbed by the thought of tithes and offerings meant for God being offered to you as compensation or as bribe money (the Benevolence Fund). I have prayed for a long time for my pastor and staff members to grow in their maturity level. Maybe this will spur them on. I have, from time to time, read your blogs about NS and Perry, and I have been very dismayed that you attack any man of God. I believe the Devil and his demons are having a party right now over this entire situation. The Devil cannot have our souls, but he can surely get us off track so others will stumble and fall. We Christians need to stop fighting each other and band together to fight the Enemy. We need to be Salt and Light.
    Dr. Duncan, there are plenty of issues out there you could be pouring your time and energy in to, such as abortion. The reason there are so few babies in the U.S. to adopt is because they are being murdered before they have the chance to be born. There are thousands of children in South Carolina’s DSS waiting for families to adopt them! Our family has been blessed by two such children. I know what you and your wife have been through, it took 10 years of waiting and praying for our first daughter to be placed in our arms. I know what it is like to have to send my husband back to the store to return maternity clothes. I have been praying for your dear, sweet wife not to give up hope! I would challenge you to set the crib up again and have faith that the Lord will fill it!
    I pray that some good will come out of all of your suffering. The Lord is having to take some of his children to the woodshed for a spiritual spanking. May we all learn something from this sad situation.

  13. Tommy F Dec 7, 2009 7:35 pm

    Joanne

    You wrote: “I have, from time to time, read your blogs about NS and Perry, and I have been very dismayed that you attack any man of God”

    I find it interesting that you aren’t “dismayed” that NS didn’t meet with JD. Or apologize, even after they fired an employee.

    And since you’ve read some of the blog posts, I’m very surprised you don’t find some of it true. After all, as your church motto clearly states: No Perfect People Allowed. Does this apply to everyone but PNoble? Shouldn’t you question what you hear when listening to a sermon? Or do you just nod in agreement – every time? Never a question?

    Seems like your church should update its motto and t-shirt: No Critics Allowed

  14. Brandon Dec 7, 2009 8:45 pm

    This whole event has put a huge knot in my stomach. I’ve been aware of NewSpring church and their often shallow (and sometimes offensive) sermons, but I had no idea this type of thing could ever happen in a “megachurch”. My parents dealt with this type of issue at a small church they went to when I was very young, and it breaks my heart to hear of it happening to someone else. I will be praying for you and your family, and I hope this all is properly settled.

    Keep preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and never be afraid to call people out on their error.

  15. Patrick H Dec 7, 2009 9:27 pm

    Dr. Duncan,

    I am praying for you and your family tonight. There is a price that all who desire to live godly in Christ do pay, but God calls you blessed. May God keep you and your family in His peace and protection.

  16. keitho Dec 7, 2009 9:46 pm

    Joanne,

    You are right, we christians should stop fighting each other. Maybe you should inform your senior pastor of that thought the next time he talks about “steeple people” (people in other churches, with steeples on them)in a non favorable light from the pulpit. From your comments, you appear to set high standards of behavior for yourself and your family. You should expect those same standards from your church leadership.

    You are dismayed that tithe money would be used to compensate for damages done. Do you honestly think that $0 should be appropriate. Sin has consequences, and if you are dismayed, maybe you should take that up with your senior pastor as well. Do you want your church to be known for cutting the main offenders loose and sweeping everything else under the rug? This is what people in the world do. Apparently, so does your church.

  17. davidmb Dec 8, 2009 12:24 am

    Mr. Duncan,

    I am sorry to hear of your loss and of your troublesome encounters over the past year. As someone who plans to be a father one day but lacks the first sleepless night of fatherhood, I commend you and your family’s effort to go forward with the adoption process. Without a doubt, it will take courage, determination, and grace that again, I have not been so tested on.

    In reading your posts and messages brought about by your encounters with NewSpring, I have thought about what it will be like when I myself have the privlege of teaching and raising a child. With this blog, and the many like it, I have taken in a very valuable lesson.

    I see and hear of the many people NS brings to Jesus and I know THAT is real– NS has an ability to bring people Jesus way better than most average traditional churches. That is a good thing. Are there problems within the church or organization that are going to affect some or certain people negatively? Yes. Is that not a good thing? Obviously it is not. Is the church perfect? No. Is there some conspiracy against certain critics? I do not believe so.

    But what good does criticism really do in this situation? Especially when it is generated in such a fashion that its nature begs to be type cast as negative criticism. The pajamapages criticizes NewSpring. NewSpring retaliates. One picks a fight for attention and the other responds in kind.

    My lesson for my future children (and I suppose my own criticism against this entire situation) is to learn not to speak against others or denounce practices. I will hope that I can teach my children to look for a better solution or better path for them to follow rather than denouncing the direction of others. Though it will be as much a lesson in maturity as a lesson in wisdom, the objective will be that when offended, realize the bigger picture and realize your place. For instance… the original disagreement with NS over a billboard: Should it be taken down because it offends me, or is there a chance I can overlook this offense if it helps people get to church… and then hopefully to Heaven? OR, since I do not think it is right (it offends me) what can I do to create a better message to get people to church… to Heaven?

    This is my criticism: To denounce criticism in the first place. Negativity reaps negativity. If someone does not agree with NewSpring, and they feel that strongly about their differences, they should start a church. If someone does not agree with a critic, just remember that is what makes them a critic and not a supporter, and to go on about their business. Going back and forth results in situations such as this one: No winners… and everyone has been distracted from the their main mission of spreading the Word.

  18. Patrick H Dec 8, 2009 12:11 pm

    davidmb,

    “This is my criticism: To denounce criticism in the first place.”

    If you were being consistent you would have refrained from writing your criticism of criticism. Your statement contradicts itself.

  19. GT Dec 9, 2009 8:17 pm

    I am at a loss of words but want to let u know that I am praying for you and your family. This is a disgrace and should not have been tolerated. This is in now way for a ministry to handle a situation like this. It is in my opinion u were entitled and deserved an apology from the leadership. I read the announcement post from NS Staff and felt as if there was something not being said. The wording made it sound like a filthy attack from a money hungry individual preying on Churchs. After searching through ur blog and reading ur writings in detail I am left feeling that you held nothing back, u were very informative on all counts. Something NS lacked in their release. This situation has caused me to stand back and really process who I am getting leadership and teaching from. You can be a great communicator on leadership, and values etc. But if u can’t put that into practice with the affairs of your own organization something is wrong.

    My heart is truly heavy for you and your family and all that you have encountered. I don’t know NS or its staff personally, only from twitter, blogs and the such. This has really made me evaluate what I allow into my mind and life. You have my email in with this post.feel free to shoot me an email and I will share with you some more of my heart on this matter. Thank you for being open. Once again, on behalf of advancing the message of Christ Love and Forgivness to the world, I am deeply sorry this has happened to a fellow Christ follower from the leadership of the institutionalized Church. May God bless and continue to grow you in your relationship with Him. As well may God continue to use and Grow the NS staff and leadership to not just be a church but to be a place where people grow into Chrislikeness.

  20. Tommy F Dec 9, 2009 9:43 pm

    davidmb,

    You wrote: “My lesson for my future children (and I suppose my own criticism against this entire situation) is to learn not to speak against others or denounce practices. I will hope that I can teach my children to look for a better solution or better path for them to follow rather than denouncing the direction of others.”

    This statement shows that you have no standards by which to judge the very blog you’re judging and denouncing. Your kids are going to be confused by your judgments and denouncements while not setting the standards by which to do so.

    Good luck.

  21. Chris Dec 9, 2009 10:48 pm

    Tommy F.

    Not sure who you are but it is quite evident that you lack the where with all to abstain from your criticism, judgment, and/or thoughts about anything.

    Your defense is comical really. Tragic what happened but your continued diatribe and rebuttals of anything smacking of support for NS is really telling.

  22. Chris Dec 9, 2009 11:02 pm

    I didn’t start blogging about NewSpring until March, and this meeting was April 1. If they start their post with such an easily refutable error, how much confidence can you have in what else they write?

    Yeah but you wrote the article to the newspaper in 2007. You also state in an April 2009 blog post that you have spoken/requested to speak to Perry Noble on many occasions privately.

    While you may be an excellent communications professor your argumentation skills and logic are a little rough.

  23. sam Dec 9, 2009 11:41 pm

    davidmb,
    Do you have the same advice on criticism for Perry Noble when he criticizes others thru his blog and twitter and also during his sermons where he has quite the disdain for “traditional” church services?

    AND how do you know that the salvations are real at NS? You know this for a fact? Interesting?

    Charles Finney thought at one time that his converts were real as well. Finney is where we get the modern day practice of the altar call.

    I wonder if you think the protestant reformation should have ever happened….A lot of criticism of the church went on there too..

    How about the criticism today when talking about Benny Hinn, Osteen, etc. Should there be no criticism at all?

    Newspring and Perry Noble had a “choice” to read here and made a conscious choice to attempt to ruin a man’s life. NS could have chosen to ignore this blog but PN seems to have an obsession with critics and loves to take potshots at them along the way. A minister should be beyond reproach and unfortunately the self appointed Pastor Noble is far from that.

  24. Chris Dec 10, 2009 12:09 am

    Newspring and Perry Noble had a “choice” to read here and made a conscious choice to attempt to ruin a man’s life. NS could have chosen to ignore this blog but PN seems to have an obsession with critics and loves to take potshots at them along the way. A minister should be beyond reproach and unfortunately the self appointed Pastor Noble is far from that.

    Um…not exactly. JDuncan wrote an article taking to task NS and then requested to speak with them multiple times. Then began this very public blog.

    Sam you’re old hat at this old blog game and you should have better logic skills. Maybe your mom’s blog needs some upgrades.

  25. Danny Dec 11, 2009 2:57 pm

    Chris,
    Is it possible for you to post a single comment without an ad hominem attack. “mom’s blog” among others. I look forward for this situation to be redeemed…but I don’t think it will until the two sides can sit down and talk without name calling. If Perry really believes that God built the church he pastors he should not have a fear of revelation of all things NOW, not when it all burns. BTW, I don’t have a problem with the ministry objectives at NS. I don’t like the foul language and bathroom humor. Perry’s a good Bible teacher, he doesn’t need all the other stuff.

  26. Sarah Dec 11, 2009 4:00 pm

    Mr. Duncan,
    I was just wondering if they are investigating the events of the adoption. I don’t think you should try and get the baby or anything, but if the case worker had anything to do with it I would think that would be illegal and she should get into trouble. No one should be put through that…ever. I know birth moms change their minds and that is one of the roller coasters of the adoption process. I would also think all of the things you told her would be completly confidential and she would not have been able to talk to anyone else about it back when it was happening or today.

  27. DH Dec 12, 2009 3:43 am

    Please help me understand why everyone keeps saying we shouldn’t be criticizing one another? Isn’t that what we are supposed to do? When my husband is correcting me I don’t tell him to stop…he’s doing what God commands him to do. What about when Jesus corrects us(not in some magical “God spoke to me” form, but from scripture)? Should we tell him to shut his pie-hole? Shouldn’t we be constantly evaluating ourselves? Yes, it does piss me off when my husband tells me I’m wrong, but he’s doing it because he cares about the truth! And, he isnt afraid to “hurt” my feelings. And, I’m wrong to be pissed. I need to repent!

    And by the way, I went to NS faithfully years ago..I was one of the “saved”(in quotes b/c i wasnt really). I felt the warm fuzzies and listened to everything PN said. I was never more miserable.
    I’m definately not a NS hater, but i do hate lies. I hate sin. I hate the “game”.

  28. Chris Dec 12, 2009 11:36 am

    Is it possible for you to post a single comment without an ad hominem attack. “mom’s blog” among others.

    It is possible.

    For instance:

    This whole deal is sad on both sides, as I’ve stated many times, but neither party is without guilt. I’m not understanding the logic of “Perry incited his congregation by his words” and “The words I write on my blog regardless of what I say don’t incite people.”

    I also don’t understand why or rather how Perry Noble didn’t specifically say JDuncan is my critic yet gets the culpability card played on him. Yet JDuncan gets upset when his name is not mentioned as “the individual”. If we are in the least bit charitable it could be assumed that for JDuncans safety and fear of another crazy/rogue NS’er his name was left anonymous. It’s duplicitous in my mind. A simple google search would yield a number of results from PN critics. And yet not everyone of them has had to deal with what JDuncan has had to deal with.

    The timelines don’t make sense: An article written two years ago. The first post in February 2009 on PP about Noble and Lamb. A meeting in March (or February) and the staffer was terminated in either late Sept. or early October. None of that adds up to “I didn’t start blogging about NS until March”. I don’t have dates on the Tweets but I don’t think it’s untimely for 6 months to elapse from the first Tweet, for police investigations to happen, supeona’s being issued, internal investigations happening, meetings, and then termination. It took longer for me to track down and have arrested someone who bounced a check to me.

    Furthermore if the police investigated it and haven’t arrested anyone then I’m assuming that they didn’t find cause. Or charges weren’t pressed. ??????

    I don’t need answers, I’m not owed answers, these are just the things that don’t make sense in my mind. Neither does someone who tweets what they did and the harassment they perpetrated on the Duncans.

  29. Chris Dec 12, 2009 11:45 am

    And another thing about Sams comment:

    He says “how do you know the salvations at NS are real? The answer you don’t”.

    Now at the risk of being Ad hominem (not really but I wanted to use your fallacy phrase for effect) His question/response begs the logical question “how do you know they’re not?” Which he may respond and say by your fruit you will know them. Which in itself is a logical fallacy because I doubt he knows every single person who has attended, does attend, NS.

    I know that asking for logic to be a basis of argument when religious belief is involved is a stretch. But because most Christians (see I’m creating a fallacy for effect) are mindless sheep (maybe goats) doesn’t mean we can at least argue effectively.

    Now that’s Ad Hominem Tu Quoque. :)

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