Nice Perspective from Furtick
Posted: August 11th, 2009 | Author: James Downing | Tags: Furtick, humility | 43 Comments »Furtick kinda addresses some of his issues this morning on his blog…read the entire post here.
While he does take a moment to congratulate himself, he ends well:
I have said, and will say, some dumb things. I’ve said some inaccurate things. Sometimes, I’ve said accurate things in dumb ways. If it every sounds like I’m schizophrenic because I say one thing in August and another thing in November, it’s because I’m learning. I’m progressing. I know it’s uncomfortable to watch me change clothes right in front of you. But at least I’m fresh.Be patient with me. I’m not preaching, teaching, blogging and tweeting because I think I’ve got it figured out. But I figure our church owes it to you to figure it out in front of you. To learn out loud.
We’re bound to hit some bad notes. But at least we’ll have ‘em recorded for playback. Should make some fun blooper reels.
I appreciate what he says here, but I do wish he displayed that humility a little more often. He has to understand, that people DO think he has it all figured out. Therefore, what he says and how he carries himself in the public eye is quite important. So far, he has done a good job of making himself out to be the young, brash, anti-authority, flamboyant pastor that feels he is above questioning from the common public. If he actually believes what he wrote above, he must make a change in the way he and his church are presented.
I’m not holding my breath…but it would be a nice start.
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just your opinion. he didnt NEED to apologize because he doesn’t intentionally do anything wrong by preaching the bible different than some of you on here do. I watched his message last night as I always do and I encourage others to as well. I’m still in shock I actually read something on this blog that wasnt negative against the church…WOW!
So unintentionally misleading God’s children is OK?
to clarify…i meant their church, meaning specifically Elevation.
James –How so??
You said no apology was needed because he didn’t do it on purpose.
the point is he didnt do anything. Also, I thought you said “intentionally and not “un-intentionally” Leaders have different styles and the way they present the Gospel, there should be no judging.
Anthony, I realize you think Furtick is currently taking time out from walking on water, but he admits in this post that he HAS done wrong. WE’re not talking style, he admits he has said dumb, inaccurate things. For a pastor leading 1000′s of people, that requires correction. All of this is fine if he is open to correction, but he has said things in the past that show that he is not. Like I said, if the attitude in this quote starts showing up in his daily life, that’s great.
I dont think he is perfect, trust me, he’s human. I just feel he gets unjustly criticized, along with Perry on here, thats all. The church for far too long as been lackadaisical in it’s pursuit of non-believers and FOR ME I love the boldness that Furtick, Noble, Driscoll, Groeschel and others teach with. They dont have all the answers and they will be the first to tell you that. Again, to re-iterate, thats just my opinion.
The probably though Anthony, is that Furtick is more critical of other churches than anyone is of him. I just listened to his sermon this week, and 90% of it was just another Elevation pep-rally. He through several shots in there at other churches, and of course the implication was “We are doing it right, you aren’t.”
If he can do that, why can’t I?
any church can! Thats the reason they took out the lights, stage design and part worship to show everyone that its not about them, its about Him. They have every reason to be excited, they are at church! It shouldnt be a time of sitting back and doing nothing but praising God! From what I hear they are opening a new campus, so they want more volunteers to further His kingdom, there is nothing wrong with that!
On another note…I attended Unleash at Newspring in the spring and one of the very first things that came out of Perry’s mouth was that nothing is special about Newspring and the same God that is at work in their church can be and is in your church.
If that is what you got out of Furtick’s sermon, then I definitely need the secret decoder ring. Because I heard him say the reason they left out lights and stuff, was to show how much they missed it when it wasn’t there. Not about Jesus.
And if Perry believes the same God is at work in other churches, why does he spend so much time attacking other churches?
I believe Perry has such a passion for Jesus and His church, that it bugs him that churches fail to reach out to the sinners and instead worry what color to paint the walls and what color the carpet should be! I believe that is why Perry says controversial stuff. However some of that controversial stuff IS warranted and some of it ISNT. However, I dont judge. Instead I say, “wow, that was bold!” and then move on. I choose not to stew over a statement that I disagree with. Thats what Satan wants, he wants us to fight “in-house” and forget that our global focus should be on the sinners. Sorry if I kind of got off topic but I felt I needed to in order to state my point.
Also, about Furtick’s sermon…the volunteers are an essential part of their service every sunday. Without the ushers, parking attendents, greeters and so forth people would be confused and it may focus their attention off of Jesus and more on the frustration of not finding a parking spot, seat or getting a well deserved welcome. Does this make sense?
Anthony, think about what you are saying. You are saying it is OK for Perry to judge other churches, but not OK for you to judge him.
How does that make sense?
James Downing,
You said, “For a pastor leading 1000’s of people, that requires correction. All of this is fine if he is open to correction, but he has said things in the past that show that he is not.”
By you, that is.
None of us here know if he is open to correction by his church leadership or his mentors.
I never said it was okay for Perry to judge other churches, I never wrote that. Do you honestly think that churches who are concerned with their carpet color are interested and doing everything they can to reach the lost? A church in my hometown of Carlisle, Ohio just spent thousands and thousands of dollars on a new sign. The church is called Hillcrest Baptist Church. The next time I go home, I will take a picture of it and post it on here because they dont have a new picture up on the website. James, was that a good way to spend money? They could have took the money they wasted on that sign and fed the homeless or send missionairies over seas! This is just one of many dumb decisions churches make and how they fail to reach the lost.
You see Anthony, I understand all that, and for the most part would agree…but Newspring is equally guilty in those same areas. They have spent lavish ammounts of money, and I’m sure the baptist church you spoke of could justify their spending as well.
Anthony,
So, you think that the money that NS and Elevation has spent on lights, sound, and other pieces of flare is different than the money your home church spent on a sign?
Anthony,
It is not necessarily an either/or situation when it comes to a church spending money. Just because a church spends money on a new carpet or sign, it does not mean that they are not giving money to missions.
It is just like Elevation or NS that spends tons of money on the top of the line A/V equipment. I could make your same argument. They should have not bought some cool lighting or the most expensive projector and spent it on the homeless or missions.
AND Furtick often buys clothes for his staff. AND they were bought Elevation rings as well. I knew of a staff member that was dismissed because he didnt fall in line with the “vision” of the church and he had to give back the ring. The creative staff were bought nice robes as well by Furtick. All of this came out of the church’s resource where people tithed. I think this is a dumb decision to spend money on. Robes, rings, etc….
See, this is where your logic falls apart because you believe that Elevation reaches the lost but yet i have shown you were they waste money on “dumb” things as well that takes away money given to missions and the homeless. The same of traditional churches that are the target of Furtick and PN. They can spend money on a new sign or carpet but yet still reach the lost.
Anthony,
With all do respect, where are going with your argument? Does not NS have several signs outside the building? NS auditorium has carpet. Who picked it out? An on a more personal level, do you rent an apartment or own a house? What would you think if I suggested to you that instead of paying a mortgage or rent, you should reside on the street and give the money away? What about your car? You know you can walk or take the bus and everything you save can go to reaching the lost. I’m sure there are plenty of other people who can tell you how to spend your money better for the Lord than you think you can yourself.
I don’t know you well, but I am confident you did not intend to put yourself in the position of judging how other people or churches should spend their money.
I have to agree. I am not sure where this was going either. The point I would make would be that when they attack churches it is for no preaching the Gospel. Its for preachers who do whatthey do just for the pay check, not for God. Its for churches who may at one time have been some of the best churches around but over time have become comfortable and no longer reach out to lost people. I know these churches exsist and that is the target audience Perry goes after. If you lookat the New Testament Letters, they are directed at churches who are straying from God and doing things unGodly. I’m not saying Perry is Like Paul or Peter,but that they were obviously public and for everyone to see becuase they are in the Bible. Yes he Mentions names but a majority of the letters are to the church in general.
I am new to this blog. good conversations that need to be had. I think i’ll say two things. Elevation, Newspring, Saddleback, etc. although filled with wonderful people suffer from two fundamentally fatal mistakes (and these are from R.C. Sproul). 1. Lost people seek God, so everything a church does must be done to draw them (lights, sounds, bands, cool/cutting edge series, shock value, etc.) Romans 3 destroys this thought. THe man in his natural state does not seek God. 2. when the church gathers, it is to have one goal in mind…a lost person. The New Testament church, although assumes unbelievers in their midst, is clear that Paul exhorted their time in gathereing for believers for the purpose of the Apostles’ teaching (theology/scripture/preaching), breaking of bread (Lords’s supper), and prayer.
Paul, you’re right on the money.
Paul,
I agree with #2. I’m still a bit confused on #1 though. Could you (or perhaps, Duncan) please reword or explain a bit better point #1? Is it basically saying, people in these churches are doing everything they can do to seek PEOPLE rather than God?
Also, which book did this come from?
Paul can explain himself if I understand him incorrectly, but he’s referring to our depravity. We are dead in sin and cannot seek God. The error he’s referring to is that there’s such a thing as a seeker.
I think RC is from this YouTube clip, though he has probably also said it in writing.
That makes sense.
Paul is 100% correct.
Sproul goes further to say what the unrenegerate is looking for is not God or Christianity but the benefits that they see in other believer’s lives.
Saddleback has installed so many programs and community for the congregation so point number 2 is wrong. As for point number one, are you saying its wrong to go after the lost???? Please Explain more clearly Paul and provide a further explanation regarding Romans 3. BTW…NONE of you have the right to say what is right and wrong, these are just your opinions! BTW…that doesnt make them RIGHT!
Anthony, you’re getting the point backwards. We’re saying that the lost don’t go after God, not that God doesn’t go after the lost.
Romans 3:11 says, “There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.”
Though that was just God’s opinion. We’ll let you decide whether it’s right.
Just watched the you tube clip. I am not sure who this guy is but it made more sense hearing it than seeing it written down and trying to explain it. So basically you guys dont think that Newspring, Elevation and Saddleback preach the Gospel??? REALLY??? I understand that unbelievers dont go in search of God but it is THE GREAT COMMISSION to REACH the LOST! RIGHT? Just because unbelievers dont seek after Jesus doesnt mean we can sit back and not minister to them! I think its funny that all these down home Baptist preachers place names like “high impact churches” and “seeker movements” on stuff. Why do you think people are going to Hell? Because pastors are too afraid to hurt the feelings of people, especially their own congregation!
Anthony, you say, “you guys dont think that Newspring, Elevation and Saddleback preach the Gospel.” I have no idea how you got there. I am especially feeling a witness from the first part of Romans 3:11–”there is no one who understands.”
The “guy” in the clip is R.C. Sproul, one of the leading living reformed theologians. He has often shared the stage with Driscoll and Piper, if that means anything to you. Both would probably say that they owe a lot of their doctrine to R.C.’s teaching (not sure, but guessing).
One more thing, I would say that I owe a good portion of my doctrinal beliefs to Sproul’s teaching, too (directly, and through other pastors and teachers who have learned from him).
Anthony,
I just read your comment above where you put Driscoll in the same sentence as Furtick. That’s worth shooting someone over in my opinion!
…. JK, but seriously, those guys are so different from each other it’s ridiculous. They shouldn’t be put any where close to the same catagory.
James,
Thanks for the post. I do like the positive and I’m glad to see that he can show some humility. I’m not a big fan of Furtick AT ALL because I think he pushes the heresy and moralism boundaries too much. I get pretty frustrated with his teaching just about every time I hear him speak.
I do pray that he grows and learns. Humility is a GREAT start. RTS Seminary might be a good next step since he is in Charlotte.
Anthony,
Sproul is AWESOME bro!! I read his stuff like crazy when I became a believer. GREAT STUFF! If you ever get a chance to read something from him you should. And Duncan is right, Driscoll and Piper and Sproul are all in the same Reformed camp. I’m sure Driscoll and Piper owe a lot to that him.
I may read some stuff from him, after I get through the books I have already put on the back burner…im kind of a book addict
What are some of the books that he has written? Even though I disagree with some of his views initially, I always love to learn. Not a big fan of Piper though and since I disagree with 99.9% of the views on this website, im kind of wary.
R.C. Sproul is an excellent teacher. God has blessed me through him.
Scripture is pretty clear on two counts regarding “seekers”: 1) Nobody seeks God without His Spirit calling them, 2) Christians are called to preach the gospel to the whole world.
I think you are all going down the road of an argument over semantics here. The truth is that the “seekers” that these churches reach out are being drawn by the Holy Spirit.
http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=2552
Don’t see anything about the Holy Spirit drawing anyone, just enabling experiences and excellent preaching.
maybe it was the Easter Egg drop where Elevation gave away prizes. Maybe it was the “Bringing Sexy Back” sermon series.
JT, Sproul’s biblical assertion is that only the regenerate seek God. It is not just semantics. If so, you would have to say that all the seekers are regenerate that come to Elevation or NS. And you know that is not the case.
Downing,
And through these experiences and excellent preaching at churches, the Holy Spirit will draw whom He will. For others, it will fall on deaf ears- no matter how excellent the music or preaching may be.
JT – That is not the position of Furtick or Noble. Unless of course, your decoder ring is telling you something I haven’t seen.
Anthony,
Don’t let your disagreements here keep you from Sproul. I don’t agree with 100% of the posts on here but Sproul has some great things to say and knows the Bible and the confessions better than most anyone I’ve ever read.
Two Great books by sproul are “Chosen by God” and “The Holiness of God.” Also, “Essential Truths of the Cristian Faith” can be a great book to start with. It deals with the confessions of Faith and explains them through scripture. You should check them out.
The awesome thing about Sproul is that he is not only extremely well versed in scripture but he has extensive knowledge on History. He also knows his Greek and Hebrew better than most pastors out there.
He just put out the “Reformation Study Bible” too. It is in the ESV translation and is a very useful study guide to scripture.
In terms of the argument at hand…
I love the idea of being culturally relevant but the idea of being seeker sensitive in church isn’t a biblical one. If the non-believer is attracted to anything it should be our worship. That seems to be what was going on in Acts 2 when “God added to their numbers daily who were being saved.” It seems from the context of that verse that God draws men to a people or church that live out the truth of the gospel in every way (repentance, fellowship, servanthood and worship being the 4 responses laid out in Acts 2).
Those who are being drawn by God will be attracted to a Church that is responding this way to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Downing, you said, “That is not the position of Furtick or Noble.”
Do you really think that Noble and/or Furtick deny that the Holy Spirit works in the hearts of unbelievers and draws them to Himself?
Really?!
That is not what they attribute to bringing people to their church. They rely on cool music, high-end production, and dropping easter eggs from helicopters.