Noble departs Christian orthodoxy, announces he’s staying put 147

Perry Noble took the unprecedented step of directly addressing criticism from the pulpit Sunday morning in response to Rosebrough’s and my critique of his Christmas Eve claim that God told him to preach that the Ten Commandments aren’t commandments. After having a week and a half to reconsider his error, Noble dug in his heels and reaffirmed his assertion that there is no Hebrew word for command. He also walked back NewSpring’s earlier categorical denial that he had ever used the N-word (“Perry doesn’t use that word and doesn’t address anyone in his life by such a word.”), suggesting that we did indeed hear him correctly and that it wasn’t the first time he’d used the word.

Before he addressed the problems with his sermon, Noble took a predictable swipe at his critics.

Fifteen years ago when we started this church, I had no idea that what I was going to do would be this hard. No idea. But I have learned that Christians can be some of the meanest, angriest people on the planet. And so, man, we have people saying…, and you’ve heard me talk about this before. “If you talk about how you don’t love cats again, we’re not coming back to the church. And if you talk about Clemson again, we’re not coming back to the church. And I don’t like it when you say sucks, or crap, or darn, or pissed.” [Laughter and applause.] I had someone email me on social media the other day and say that I cannot bring a friend to our church because I never know what you’re going to say.

And I want to be honest with you guys. I have a pastor’s heart, and my heart is that I wish that I could make everyone in the world happy. But you know what I’ve realized in 15 years of doing this? If I try to make you happy, I become fake. And if I become fake, I become a bad leader of this church. So the promise I’m going to make you as a church [applause] is you get the same guy on stage as you would get at dinner…. [Editor’s note: He doesn’t want to eat dinner with you.]

Listen, church, people are going to attack me. People are going to attack our church and the way that we do church. It’s just going to happen. Recently–I don’t know if you’ve seen this online–but recently there’s been some stuff said about how I say the Ten Commandments (our Christmas Eve services, by the way, were awesome, they were incredible), and some people said that I tried to rescind the Ten Commandments. I didn’t try to rescind the Ten Commandments. I simply declared that they are actually promises from God, because Ten Command…–that word command in Hebrew–it is not command, it is saying. I have resear… I have gone back and talked to people in Israel that confirm those things.

Let me just mention this while I’m at it. There’s been a lot of chatter online this week, and some of you may have seen it, and people saying that I said from this stage the N-word at our Christmas services. You’ve probably seen it. If you haven’t, it’s online; you can go look at it. But listen, don’t fight, don’t fight online. Fighting online is like peeing in the wind; it feels good at first, but everybody gets messy. [Laughter]

If you watch through the video, it looks like I said the N-word. Let me promise you something: that’s not the word that was in my heart. My words got jumbled. It’s not the word that was in my heart. It’s not the word that I wanted to come out of my mouth. It’s not the word that I’ve declared from this stage. My heart is for racial reconciliation. I love all races. Listen, when we get to heaven, every nation, tribe, tongue and language will celebrate who Jesus is together. [Applause] So, let me say this: If you watched that and you felt like I said that word, and you were offended by that, I am deeply sorry. Please know, that’s not what was in my heart, and that’s all we’re going to say about that, and we’re going to move on because we’ve got people to reach for Jesus. Amen? [Applause]

Noble’s statement from the 8:30 a.m. service is noticeably less forceful than their earlier statement that he had never used the N-word. Perhaps because he realized there are too many witnesses to his conversations to sustain an outright denial, Noble seems to concede that he has used that word in private (note the emphasis on not wanting to say it on stage) and that it had accidentally slipped out as he prepared to tell the punchline to the conversation he was having with his friend. My guess is that Noble uses the term affectionately so doesn’t see how using it would make him racist. (I’m not excusing that type of use, just saying that’s probably how Noble sees it.)

One thing I’ll credit Noble for is that as soon as he said it on stage he knew it was a mistake and stopped. He also kind of apologized for it, though he put most of the blame on the listeners who felt like they heard it rather than fully accepting the moral responsibility for having obviously said it. It was also a nice rhetorical flourish to wrap himself in the evangelism flag to put an end to further discussion: Stop talking, we need to win people for Jesus.

There’s much more that could be said about Noble’s N-word problem, though that’s not the biggest problem with his sermon or yesterday’s statement. While he saw his error and apologized for the N-word, Noble continues to see no problem with his rejection of the Ten Commandments, an error that he has now embraced twice (one in the statement from Jan 2, the second from yesterday’s service).

On Christmas Eve, Noble, perhaps unintentionally, stepped outside the boundary that defines biblical Christian faith. Yesterday, he declared that he’s not ready to come back.

From the outset, I’ve given Noble the benefit of the doubt on how he came to his conclusion that there are not actually any commandments in the Old Testament. The kernel of truth that grew into Noble’s big error was that the Ten Commandments, also known as the Decalogue (ten words), didn’t have a formal title. You can see the outline of what Noble’s Bible tutor was trying to teach him in the Terminology section of this Wikipedia article.

If we stipulate that the Wiki article is correct, we see that the terminology issue is limited to the title of the Commandments. Would Noble say that Boston College, which doesn’t use the word university in its title, isn’t a university like Clemson or USC? Of course not. The nature of the institution is described but not determined by its title. Whatever title anybody gives the Decalogue doesn’t change what they are: commandments.

Now, that’s all interesting, but it’s ultimately irrelevant. The only issue that matters is what the Bible calls the commandments, and it turns out that the Bible calls them commandments. The issue is so blindingly obvious that it seems unnecessary to actually have to spell it out, but people’s willingness to accept or defend Noble’s argument has surprised me, so let’s do this again and let the Bible interpret itself.

And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them.” (Deut 5:1)

Ah, but statutes and rules aren’t commands, Noble might argue. Deut 6:1 makes it clear that they’re the same:

Now this is the commandment–the statutes and the rules–that the Lord your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them.

Statutes and rules are an appositive, a restatement or renaming of the word that precedes them. If the Old Testament doesn’t really have a word for command, this verse from Deut 8:1 also becomes impossible to translate or understand:

The whole commandment that I command you today you shall be careful to do.

When we look at the ten commandments themselves, we see that they’re written as imperatives.

You shall have no…, You shall not…, Observe, Honor. (Deut 5:7-21)

The plain grammatical syntax of these verses shows that they’re commands. Looking at the New Testament, Jesus identified them as commands in Matthew 19:17.

If you would enter life, keep the commandments.

Ephesians 6:2 also creates a problem for Noble’s premise.

Honor your father and mother (this is the first commandment with a promise) that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.

Paul distinguishes commandments from promises, though he points out that they are sometimes linked. Commandments are not promises, they’re commandments.

Noble’s mistake was to take a little bit of truth and apply it to the entire Old Testament and to each of the ten commandments. For example, he told parents they were wrong to teach that the Bible commanded children to honor their parents. As I argued in my previous post, the larger theological implications of Noble’s error are serious and heretical, which is why I and many others had hoped he’d correct his obvious error.

That he didn’t is a cause for serious concern. Noble preached a sermon that denied the heart of God’s law, which in turn eviscerates the entire gospel and denies the atoning power of Christ. Perhaps Noble departed orthodoxy accidentally, but he has refused the opportunity to come back.

His statement today suggests that he knows he’s wrong but he doesn’t dare discover the truth. Look again at Noble’s “defense” of his sermon:

[The Commandments] are actually promises from God, because Ten Command…–that word command in Hebrew–it is not command, it is saying. I have resear… I have gone back and talked to people in Israel that confirm those things.

He starts to say that he researched the term, but can’t quite bring himself to use that word. Instead of research, he went back to the source of his error–his friends in Israel. It’s as if he didn’t want to find any information that would undermine his thesis. Start with the desired conclusion, then work furiously to avoid anything that would contradict it. G.K. Chesterton described Noble’s behavior well: “To be wrong, and to be carefully wrong, that is the definition of decadence.”

So why won’t Noble correct such an obvious and serious error? Here’s my theory.

It would expose his weakness as a preacher

He readily acknowledges his ignorance of Hebrew, which is why he reacts so credulously to his Israeli driver. Noble mocks serious theological education and boasts about walking away from seminary himself. A mix of his willful ignorance of the biblical languages and of church history  was the toxic stew that helped produce his sermon. (Shouldn’t it have given him pause that he was rejecting the label that Protestants have always used for the commandments?)

Those who would preach God’s Word have a serious, terrible responsibility. To get it right requires much effort and study. In the Old Testament, the Levites prepared for the priesthood from birth and couldn’t start their priestly duties until they turned 30. Paul commends Timothy (2 Tim 3) for having learned Scripture from his childhood, yet commanded him to continue to study it as a workman so he would be ready to preach. Such serious preparation was required, Paul says, because other preachers would arise who would preach unsound doctrine.

Peter had the same concern about the harm that would be wrought by unlearned teachers.

Our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

A pastor’s ignorance of Scripture is not an excuse, it’s a threat.

It would undermine his salvation statistics

Noble got on his knees to beg people to say yes to Jesus after revising the Ten Commandments

Noble got on his knees to beg people to say yes to Jesus after revising the Ten Commandments

After Noble’s sermon, he pleaded for the unsaved to come forward to say yes to Jesus, something that Noble assumed signaled their conversion to Christianity. What would happen if Noble now renounced his entire sermon? Should the people who accepted his argument still be considered saved, given that they had actually heard a message that rejected the gospel? How do you issue a recall on an altar call?

He really does want to redefine Christianity

Friends of Noble have defended the Commandments sermon by suggesting that we’re overreacting and taking his lesson out of context. Noble actually provided the context at the beginning of his sermon.

It all starts with the word yes... Have you really said yes to God?…

There are two main objections that people have to becoming a Christian. One is that they’ve met some Christians, and I understand. Listen. We–because I’m a Christian–we can be weird people sometimes. We can say some dumb things. We can say some stupid things. We can say some insensitive things. Yes, we have been weird, but please don’t think God is weird because his people are…

But number two–and this is the biggest thing that people tell me. They say, “Perry, I don’t feel like I could do what it takes to be a Christian. I don’t feel like I could keep all the rules. I don’t feel like I could keep all the regulations. I don’t feel like I could keep the commandments. And, so because I can’t do it well I’m not even going to try because I would rather not try than to try at something and fail.”

And there are people here tonight that you’ve said no to Jesus for so long because you feel like you would fail, you would mess up, you couldn’t do it right. It goes back to this idea that in the Bible there’s these things called the Ten Commandments.

You ever heard of those? Even if you’re a non-christian, you’ve heard of the Ten Commandments. Now it became real interesting to me–and this is the reason that I think you need to say yes to Jesus tonight–because earlier this year I was in Israel…

[The story of his driver’s lesson about the Ten Commandment follows.]

Instead of Ten Commandments that you have to keep if you’re going to be a follower of Jesus, they’re actually ten promises that you can receive when you say yes to Jesus. So what I want to do tonight is I just want to go through each one of them very quickly….I am trying my best to convince you to say yes to Jesus because of these ten promises.

After describing God’s family as an embarrassment, he gets to the heart of the issue. If nonbelievers are repelled by God’s law, it’s really OK. There is no such thing as God’s law. God is really just a soft bucket of puppies and kittens that you’ll really, really enjoy. Noble is revising the Ten Commandments because God’s enemies don’t like them.

Noble is creating a religion that is going to be acceptable to people who can continue in their rebellion against God’s law. Rather than being broken by the law and rescued by Christ (see Romans 7), Noble is preaching an anti-Christian message that embraces a revulsion towards God’s law and God’s family.

This is why Noble needs to repent publicly and quickly. He has sold a false religion to his flock, many of whom may have no reason to examine the state of their salvation (Philippians 2:12).

We take no joy in seeing Noble persist in his error, though this Commandments sermon has provided many with a moment of clarity over the danger of his preaching. I fear for Noble, who in the last few weeks has denied that the early church had a Bible, said that homosexuality is no more sinful than obesity, and has now rejected the Ten Commandments. The trajectory is ominous.

Noble has lived on the boundaries of orthodoxy for a long time, but he has departed it now and is advocating a non-christian gospel. For the sake of the people who continue to follow Noble, we pray that he repents and comes back.

(P.S. I did privately contact Noble last week recommending that he repent and correct his Christmas Eve sermon. His statement today was his response.)

147 thoughts on “Noble departs Christian orthodoxy, announces he’s staying put

  1. David Rhee Jan 7, 2015 10:03 am

    Perry could “preach” all he wants as long as he don’t call himself a Christian or a pastor when he preaching his theology.. That is the whole issue and many will continue to critique and rebuke him with love until he repents on the sins he has already committed…. See, if he don’t use God’s and Christ’s name in vain, it would not be an issue.. If you ever notice, many Christians don’t make an issue out of atheists because they admitting state that they don’t believe in God.. But Christians do respond to atheists when they attack the Word of God and who Christ is (do we not have the right to defend)… Perry Noble does not attack Christ directly but is attacking Him by contradicting and more or less lying about what the Word has stated clearly (seriously, command is emphatic and stated.. So Perry knows better than the Word of God in intention, meaning, and words).. He is doing nothing different from an atheist…. BUT someone like Perry, who states he believes in God.. Believes in Jesus.. Well, you see the issue?

    Your question of what if is a poor argument in this discussion.. If you were to use that argument, we could drum up all these what if for everything.. What if the world was flat… What if we are to become gods.. See how it don’t explain anything nor does it make it objective or concrete on the evidences already present and revealed by God.. Rather it is more subjective.. Well, there is no what if in the Word of God… Why don’t you check on the early church writing which only reinforce the Word of God and the orthodoxy that Perry still continues to not accept as Truth… Your post-modern question that tries to raise doubt in people’s mind about their faith only points that you are seriously blind… You don’t believe in the Word of God to be the Truth.. So you seriously need to discern yourself and ask if you have the right theology. Because you are arguing against the very Word of God that states it boldly, clearly, and explicitly…

    Then to link that true believers in Christ are the reason many blood was shed… That is some serious jumping into conclusion.. Seriously, could you show me some evidences.. Let me guess… Crusade (kings that use God’s name in vain to take the land by force and war… Don’t that just reinforce Newspring mentality that the end justify the means.)… Spanish inquistion (you know how the leaders again use God’s name in vain for their own gain and glory).. If you want to see what true believers have done, you should consider reading the Fox Book of Martyrs..

    At this point, you are arguing something that you have a misconception and wrong perception of things to make arguments.. You could defend Perry all you want but it does not change the fact.. He is a unrepented person (at best) to a false teacher at worse… Either case, that is a bad situation at Newspring.. So I would recommend you should try to objective and discern what many brothers and sisters are posting about the errors that Perry “preach”.. Your salvation is on the line especially if you are wrong… So I plead that you check the evidences that clearly show Perry is flat out wrong..

  2. Daniel S Jan 7, 2015 10:16 am

    Are people really this delusional or are they just trolling? To hear one side’s perspective would be understandable but to come to a website that provides evidence for everything it claims uses those claims to demonstrate just how wrong something is and then to still be blind to the truth? Are people actually reading the words here and thinking critically about what they are reading/hearing,? I fear that they are not. How sad is the future of evangelicalism in this country if Perry Noble stays as one of its leaders and the people who follow him are this blind? Very sad indeed.

  3. Escaped 2 Jan 7, 2015 11:48 am

    My story is exactly Escaped’s story. Like almost exactly identical. I went to that church for 10+ years. When I started going, there was only about 200 people attending. It was pretty solid at the time (considering that I was a young Christian when attending). Perry baptized me. I volunteered in 3 capacities. Now I’m a member at a very very biblical and Christ-honoring church just minutes down the road from NewSpring. What changed? It’s what Escaped, Starlord, Don, and Pajama Pages has been saying all along. YES, IT’S TRUE. Jn. 1:1 God is his word…and I can’t stand by Perry because he doesn’t honor that. My advice to NewSpringers is, the same as Escaped’s, ACT NOW AND ESCAPE. It’s not too late. There are plenty of theologically solid/ biblical churches in the state. Yes, they may be smaller, they might not be as hip and cool, they might not give away products – but you will be fed and we’re all called to grow up in Christ. Open your minds, open your hearts and seek…you will find! ACT NOW! One love. 😀

    • Starlord Jan 7, 2015 12:33 pm

      Escaped 2,

      I think you’ll agree with what I’m about to say…
      It should raise a whole lot of RED FLAGS when you see so many people who are former NewSpringers giving testimonies of “escaping” from the church. We’re not talking about people who have no idea what goes on inside the church or behind the scenes, we’re talking about people who have been actively involved for years. It’s one thing for someone on the outside to criticize the church, but when you have scores of people who attended, volunteered, tithed to, and worked for NewSpring now coming forward and warning others to get out before it’s too late…frankly, that’s just scary.

  4. Jimmy Jan 7, 2015 1:57 pm

    Pastor P sent out a tweet that God had spoken to him and he had a NEW sermon to share on Christmas Eve. I know for a FACT that this particular service was not a GOD inspired service. How do I know this? Because God doesn’t lie. Pastor P’s whole premise for this service was that the Ten Commandments were not really Commandments at all. My question to you, is that true or false?
    I love Perry Noble. I feel that NewSpring is bringing some closer to God. But for every story I HEAR about how I once was an atheist, drunk, or drug abuser…etc and New Spring saved me or saved my marriage, I SEE with my own eyes people leaving other churches and attending NewSpring and having a new set of “values” and growing farther from the Lord. Let me just say I’m the biggest sinner of us all. I am by no means perfect.
    Has anyone ever said anything negative about NewSpring on Facebook or a public forum? How did that go for you? It amazes me the amount of people who will defend a preacher before they will defend God and his word.
    Just remember that there is one true voice out there who has no hidden agenda, or axe to grind, or ego. Listen to God. Trust in the Lord.

    • Joe Blackmon Jan 7, 2015 2:49 pm

      Has anyone ever said anything negative about NewSpring on Facebook or a public forum? How did that go for you? It amazes me the amount of people who will defend a preacher before they will defend God and his word.

      This happened to me. We were going to a church where the youth pastor took the youth on a trip to see a regular Sunday service at Elevation (hint-that’s why it’s a former church). To try to draw him out on Facebook, I posted some valid criticism about Perry Noble and NewSpring and of course he pounced on it quicker than you could say Jack Sprat.

      • YouthPastor Jan 14, 2015 12:11 pm

        So you baited your ex-youth pastor in order to seek him out and destroy him? You find nothing deceptive about that? Is that AT ALL in conflict with Jesus’ guidance in Matthew 18 when you have a conflict with a brother?

        Instead of going to him with a problem, an issue you have, your answer is to ‘draw him out’ instead. To bait him into a reply, planning on an emotional response so you can validate leaving a church over something you decided you didn’t like instead of being a brother to him and explaining your concern and addressing him as your brother in Christ.
        As a youth pastor, that hurts my heart. The Lord has been so good to me to continually bring me through sanctification and allow me to grow in my theology and understanding, and I am not the man I was 10 years ago. Even as someone who knew Steven Furtick years ago at NGC (Now NGU), and knowing his heart, I believe his church is more Furtick driven than anything, which saddens me- however, if I saw my church’s youth pastor- the guide of a flock of the church- someone who wields such influence in student’s lives, I would hope that a brother would address him faithfully as a friend and brother rather than wait in the high weeds to pounce and devour. This grieves my heart heavily.

        • David Rhee Jan 14, 2015 1:02 pm

          YouthPastor,

          Though you make some points in terms of one’s intention in the heart, I think you are jumping to conclusions and a statement that is not necessarily what the person has done or made…

          Did Joe Blackmon destroy a man? From the information, no… Nor do could we tell from the conversation… I could draw someone out with the intention of love and to show an error… Joe could have already address it in private (which the pastor did not refuse to accept or repent).. So he could use more than 2 or more witness (be it Facebook, etc)… Again, I do not know the details nor care to jump to conclusion..

          Jesus has draw the Pharisee and Sadduccees out many times in the synagogue… So again, to argue that it completely wrong would be a wrong pretense. So let’s be clear, from what you posted… You are reading into the lines (eisegesis) and not reading it as is (exegesis)…

          Also, posting a valid criticism with intention to address error was common with Paul and his debate with the Judiazers.. Again, the former youth pastor does not need to jump into the conversation.. If he did so, then he did and you have to face that as is.. That is what apologetic is…. Your defense… That could be with the intention to address an error of your “opponent”…

          At the end, I do not know Joe Blackmon’s motivations and intentions.. It could just to address the false teaching (which he clearly points out).. But to state that this destroyed the former youth pastor is a big jump to conclusion that is not founded…

          Just wanted to point that out..

    • Savedbygrace Jan 7, 2015 9:05 pm

      It amazes me the amount of people who will defend a preacher before they will defend God and his word.

      This pretty much sums it up, well said!

  5. JB Jan 7, 2015 2:32 pm

    Just curious if anyone has looked into how they produced the printed material Noble shows during his sermon with the YES sticker inside for every campus in their network in one day if he didn’t know he was going to preach it until that day?

    • An Actual Follower of Jesus Jan 8, 2015 6:06 pm

      JB, we already had all of the YES materials because we used them the week before.

  6. Pingback: Perry Noble: What to Do? | politics, law, religion and other rambling commentary

  7. Clark Jan 7, 2015 6:05 pm

    I am a current owner at NewSpring. I cannot and will not defend Perry or any other leader when they clearly say erroneous statements. Perry clearly said “there is no word in Hebrew that means command”. That is factually wrong. If he were to have said that the word usually TRANSLATED as command can also mean…….. He would have done no more than many pastors, which is to help listeners understand that words may have multiple meanings and can provide clarity. That was not what this was. It saddens me that he refused to acknowledge how his sermon could have been misinterpreted. No matter what one thinks of Perry or NewSpring, one has to admit that Jesus IS changing lives. I have had many friends and family come to faith in Jesus thru NewSprings ministry. Just like I will not condone or defend error, I also will not deny the imapct it has on getting the lost found.

    • Tommy Jan 7, 2015 7:02 pm

      That’s the problem. I see no evidence that lives are actually being changed. Professions of faith may be being made by the thousands, but what evidence is there that these are true conversions? Remember, Matthew 7:16 says, “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” And Jesus said in John 14:15, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” Although repentance–turning away from sin and toward God–is not the means by which we are saved, it is most certainly the chief evidence that salvation has taken place. I have heard too many NewSpringers brag about getting drunk with their friends over the weekend, discuss raunchy movies and television shows, post music videos on facebook that were loaded with blasphemy and profanity, etc. for me to be able to confidently say that God is changing lives through NewSpring. When you sit in a Japanese restaurant and hear the lady behind you tell her friend that the main reason she attends NewSpring is because of the fact that she can be open about the fact that she and her boyfriend are living together before marriage, you find it hard to accept that God is really working in NewSpring. Whatever happened to Matthew 5:13-16 which tells us to be the salt and light of the world? If the entire truth of the Bible were being preached at NewSpring, such people would put as much distance between themselves and NewSpring as humanly possible.

      • Savedbygrace Jan 7, 2015 9:19 pm

        I whole heartedly agree. Jesus himself stated requirements to those who questioned him about what they must do to inherit eternal life, “Go and sin no more”, “Go sell everything”, in essence, TURN from the lifestyle of sin. When you have a culture that demands acceptance, and a church that wants SO bad to look like the culture that it doesn’t expect a conversion to look like a turn from sin, that doesn’t look like much of a church to me.

        • Tommy Jan 7, 2015 9:37 pm

          I don’t think Perry Noble’s chief goal is to “look like the culture.” His chief goal clearly is to gain as many members as possible. And if that means having to blend in with the culture, he’s obviously willing to do it. I’ll never forget that one time a couple of my friends convinced me (and it took A LOT of convincing) to attend a Sunday night service at NewSpring. At the end of the service, he had volunteers hand out bundles of little cards with NewSpring’s name on them. As far as I remember, I don’t believe they said anything else. He then asked the congregation to use those cards to invite a certain number of people to NewSpring the following week. I know I’m probably going to sound like some sort of a fanatic when I say this, but shouldn’t his main concern be that we invite people to Jesus? If his main concern is to see the lost come to know the Lord, why would he want them to have to wait until the following Sunday to hear the Gospel message? It’s worth considering that it may have something to do with the fact that he wants to be able to say that they were saved at NewSpring. If someone comes to know the Lord as a result of a conversation at the local Pizza Hut, Perry Noble wouldn’t be able to include them on his annual report of the thousands that were supposedly saved as a result of his preaching.

      • Clark Jan 7, 2015 11:03 pm

        I have seen the life change first-hand. Of course, there will be those who make professions who aren’t regenerate. But I know that some are. I am not an apologist for NS or Perry Noble. But I will not condemn them either. I might condemn certain actions, statements, etc if they are factually incorrect. But I won’t argue that the methods used by NewSpring work. I know for a fact that they can and do. If 500 respond and even half are legitimate, that’s still 250 people who aren’t going to Hell.

        • Tommy Jan 7, 2015 11:52 pm

          First of all, I couldn’t condemn Perry Noble (or anyone else, for that matter) even if I wanted to. Only God has the power to do that. However, I can draw the conclusion with biblical reasoning that his methods are indeed extremely dangerous, to say the least. No doubt his methods are successful at helping him reach his goals, but do they accomplish what God wants? That is the more important question. In your scenario, the focus ought not be on the 250 who genuinely gave their hearts and lives to Jesus Christ, but it ought to be on the 250 who had false conversions due to faulty teaching. You may think this is no big deal, but these 250 people are on their way to Hell thinking that they’re going to Heaven. There is no word in the English language to describe how horrible that is. That is not to mention the devaluing of people’s souls that just took place when you made that comment. Even if Perry Noble only produced one false convert in all his years of preaching, it would equally as tragic. I think the issue here is a misunderstanding of the reality of Hell within the modern church.

      • Daniel G. Jan 8, 2015 9:43 am

        This is really the crux of the issue with NewSpring. There is a lot of good marketing that gets people there, but there is not a lot sound teaching that gets believers to “grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ”. I’ve come across many who have been baptized by NewSpring and regularly: open lesbian couples, cohabitating couples, and the like. They go there because they know they won’t be “judged” there.

        Look, I’m all for getting those type of people in church and seeing them come to repentance. No doubt about it. The problem is NewSpring will not show these people there need for ridding themselves of their and pursuing holiness. It will basically give them comfort in their sin and not point it out because to do so would be “legalism”.

        I’m also against “legalism”. I’ve been a part of fundamentalist churches before. I know the abuse heaped upon many believers because of a certain set of rules that have to be followed. At the same time, you can’ set aside the fact that there is an “obedience of faith” (Romans 1:5, 16:26) It is an obedience that is required because Christians must show themselves set apart to God, free from sin, and called to holiness.

    • Pastor K Jan 8, 2015 11:30 am

      Bingo, nail on the head. End of discussion. Clark you nailed it!

  8. Lee Jan 7, 2015 10:19 pm

    I am a NS owner and I know I have been saved by The Lord Jesus: not PN. Jesus’ blood has washed me clean! I was not saved at NewSpring! It was at another Church 26 years ago. When I made my profession of Faith, I actually was told by other seemingly dedicated Church folks from a leading Church Denomination: ” you are only saying you are saved because you were such a terrible sinner (adulterer, liar, a heart of hate and murder, active rebellion from God, etc.), and come back after a year and still say you are saved.” Needless to say, I was hurt, had doubt and the Holy Spirit speaking through Christian Music spoke to my heart with encouragement. I did not give up. Were these folks truly believers? I think so. Their hurt and pain I caused made it difficult for them to beleive in my forgiveness by God through Jesus’ blood.

    The Church of Jesus is not a building, denomination, doctrine, or even a Country. It is the followers of Jesus and Jesus only! I beleive I am part of a world church of many believers from many denominations, countries, and so on. I have attended or visited many church’s in the area including different denominations. In all of those church’s were people that acted in violation of the 10 commandments, and the teachings of Jesus.

    They had to repent regularly. However, until the crisis hit that exposed them, they looked pretty good in the church environment. Why is it portrayed in these blogs that none of your church’s have anyone like that. I am sure lots of folks expect perfect people after their salvation experience. Perfection just does not happen immediately and is a race with the winner finishing and not necessarily looking and acting the best all the way through the race.

    Note that the only other blogger that stated a potential church they attended was referencing a Catholic Church. I am sure he is happy to have all of the Protestant denominations attacking NewSpring in lieu of his church. I contend that there are lots of folks in every church that most likely are not saved. Some are very good people and think that their works can get them in heaven. Not Perry’s, mine or anyone else’s works, filthy rags, can get us into heaven. Do any of you speaking against the teachings of NewSpring even attend a church in the area? If so, I question the validity of your critisism. Are folks so blind as not to see problems in every church that man attends? Have not many pastors in every denomination made their own mistakes? Even after years in seminary and other studies.

    There is no doubt very intelligent and articulate folks use this blog. Even with all of the points and bible quotes, I do not see any evidence that the folks on this blog or any other local church’s are truly salt and light to Anderson. Please tell me if I am wrong. Show the evidence besides just bible thumping and condemning everyone else.

    Lee

    • Taylor Jan 26, 2015 3:06 pm

      “I do not see any evidence that the folks on this blog or any other local church’s are truly salt and light to Anderson.”

      I don’t live in Anderson, but I do live close by and I know of a few very missional, bible-centered churches in the city aside from Newspring. Even if you do not agree with anything on this blog, I would be careful with statements like this as it seems highly assumptive and extremely divisive of Jesus’s Chuch.

  9. Humblylearning Jan 7, 2015 11:11 pm

    Apart from anything being possible, if Mr. Noble isn’t going to change and preach the accurate Gospel of Jesus Christ in Scripture, what else can really be done? All these people willingly make the choice to keep going there to enjoy the entertainment of the rock concert music, a comedy act sermon, and a self-help message that tells them Christianity is all about Jesus giving you everything you desire in your hearts just by believing. All while Mr. Noble makes his choice to continue to bask in his wealth by running his church like a corporation, and denying any accountability or possibility of being wrong because of the narcissism of his belief of God directly approving everything he does. Though perhaps ultimately these things eventually crumble to the weight of hypocrisy.

    I suppose until then we continue to pray for everyone at Newspring, including Mr. Noble. We continue to inform people of the Word more accurately whenever people are humbly willing to listen. I think the bright side in all of this if there is one, is that mega churches like Mr. Noble’s only make up a very small number of the totality of the church population. If I’m not mistaken, from studying religion in my sociology class, about 90% of churches are below 500 members. So they’re all mostly somewhat small much like the churches that started in Acts. The amount of megachurches, which sociologists define as a church having more than 2000 members, is less than 1% based on the most recent statistic that I could find.

    But I suppose nonetheless, being the 2nd largest church in America having nearly 40000 members is still a daunting amount of souls at stake that are being dangerously influenced by misinformation. Though really, when any one soul is being influenced by false teaching, that alone is a tragedy. I hope we all can continue to study and learn from the Word of God, and encourage others to do the same as well.

  10. Jane Jan 7, 2015 11:33 pm

    What a difficult life you live, dissecting the words of a fellow brother in Christ. Is it not God’s job to hold Mr. Noble to a standard? Has God not rewarded Mr. Noble and NewSpring Church for the GOOD they have done amidst their mistakes? Have you, a fellow Christian and lover of Jesus, taken it upon yourself to become God as you judge, demean, and crucify this church, which is Jesus’ bride? I challenge you to find a church or pastor or follower of Jesus that has no fault. And when you fail in this challenge, I pray your eyes are opened and your heart grows and you’re able to love your brother and let God do the dirty work. This “standard” you are attempting to hold NewSpring Church to is impossible because it is lead by men and women of this broken world. I mean you no ill-will. As your sister in Christ, I pray the Lord lets you love and see Perry the way God loves and sees Perry. For your thoughts and further research, Id love you to take a look at this article from 2012 (unaffiliated from
    NewSpring): link to ministrymagazine.org

    • Stephen Jan 8, 2015 9:17 am

      God will not judge Mr. Noble until the last day. In the mean time, it is the Christian’s job to warn about wolves amongst the flock. I will pray your eyes are opened, Jane.

    • Daniel G. Jan 8, 2015 9:29 am

      Jane,

      While you seem well-intentioned and I appreciate your desire for unity, you are actually doing more harm than good in defending Perry Noble on this. Forgive me, but I will have to “dissect” some of what you said.

      “What a difficult life you live”. Why would you say something like this? It does not seem fitting, nor is it an assumption you should make just because you don’t like the approach that Dr. Duncan has taken. Unfortunately, for all of us Christians this is a difficult life. The Christian life is hard. We fight many battles with this foolish world and also with our own sinfulness. We also some times have to fight against false doctrine that devalues the gospel that we embrace. That certainly is hard is as well, but we are not necessarily better off ignoring it and pretending like it’s not something going on.

      “dissecting the words of a fellow brother in Christ.” This is somewhat true, but still a bit of a misrepresentation, as you make it seem like the critique of Perry is just being nit-picky. At the bottom of our issue with Perry is his seeming desire to twist things so that they fit his philosophy and become more palatable to a certain group of people. Whether or not what he says is based on careful study and analysis of God’s Word seems to be secondary. His primary goal is to tickle itching ears and make people think he is giving some great insight about some sort of vision he has seen (remember, God specifically told him to teach this). That’s just irresponsible as a pastor and shows a general lack of maturity. The criticism is more than just “dissecting” a few words here and there, it’s more about Perry’s overall approach when teaching.

      “Has God not rewarded Mr. Noble and NewSpring Church for the GOOD they have done amidst their mistakes?” I’m not sure exactly what this means. In what way have they been rewarded? I’m not saying you’re wrong, just not sure what the point of this question is.

      ” I challenge you to find a church or pastor or follower of Jesus that has no fault.” This isn’t the point. Saying this make it clear you have missed the entire point. It’s not about pointing out little miniscule failures wherever we find them. It’s about holding leaders accountable when they lead their flocks astray and teach them things that are not fitting for sound doctrine. (Titus 2:1)At some point, all believers have to draw a line about what is fitting for conduct/sound doctrine in the body. We don’t just throw our hands and say that we’ll let God take care of it. We don’t have to be God to do this and criticism doesn’t have to be demeaning or cause for “crucifying the church”. Rather, it is healthy so that the body remains pure from the filth and foolishness of this world.

      “Let God do the dirty work”. This goes to my point above. This is equivalent to anarchy within the body of Christ. There should be no standards and no accountability, we should all just love each other and let God take care of the “dirty work”. It’s ridiculous to say such a thing and a shirking of our responsibility as believers to maintaining purity.

      What if Perry or any other pastor (hypothetically speaking) started saying we should follow certain teachings of the Koran. Are we just supposed to pretend that is okay? Should we be silent and let God do the “dirty work”? Of course not! Any time sound doctrine is discarded in favor false, we ought to always be sober and alert for it creeping into the church. “A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough”. What Perry has said cannot simply go unchecked. While he may have some helpful points about the ten commandments and how we ought to think about, his conclusion that they are nothing more than promises intended to get us to say “yes” to Jesus is just wrong. It’s not the gospel, I don’t care how many unbelievers received the message. They did not get the gospel message. They got a watered-down and more palatable approach to God and Christianity.

      As for the article you linked, I think Chris Rosebrough and many other commenters have already been over some of those points. There’s no need to rehash them. The bottom line is that, while there are valid points made, it’s just not true to say that the commandments are not commandments and are merely promises.

  11. Joseph J Jan 8, 2015 10:22 am

    He is just a goat pretending to be a sheep and therefore fake.

  12. Matt Jan 8, 2015 10:32 am

    I have a question for the apologists that I’ve really been struggling with. Can you provide an example of something that would make you question Perry’s teaching? At what point would Perry be crossing the line in your estimation? I think this is where many of us are disagreeing because one side says that Perry’s assertions about the Decalogue (the 10 commandments) and his reimagining of them are across the line already, but the other camp says that it’s not really across the line as much as it is a misunderstanding. Can you give an example of what would be across the line?

    • learning every day Jan 15, 2015 7:40 pm

      Here are three:

      1. In stating that there are no commandments and that the ten commandments, Noble shows that he really doesn’t understand the whole structure of the Bible from beginning to end. There were commandments in Eden even before the Fall! God made numerous covenants with his people (Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David, etc.) which involved commandments (build a boat, circumcise, build a temple, etc.) as well as promises. But conflating the two, Noble demonstrates that he understands neither the human dilemma before God (law-breakers) nor what Jesus came to do–not to cheer us up and give us self-confidence, but to both obey every commandment on our behalf (active obedience) and to pay the penalty for our breaking of commandments (penal substitution). Noble needs to listen to rapper Shai Linne!

      2. Noble’s Jan 8th blog stated: “God isn’t a God in heaven who is screaming to us that we are not good, but rather showing us over and over that He is good.” By pitting God’s justice which demands that he condemn and punish sin, against God’s goodness, Noble shows that not only does he not understand biblical anthropology (that is, how the Bible depicts mankind) and Jesus’ work, he also misunderstands God’s own nature. So the god that he presents is a caricature of the true God, not an accurate proclamation of God’s own self-revelation.

      3. Re-editing of Scripture. When one literally removes God’s own words from a presentation of Scripture in front of a congregation, and inserts one’s own, doesn’t that cross a line?

      By crossing a line I don’t mean that Noble is not “saved,” and cannot repent and be restored. I do mean that his teaching has been shown to be unfaithful to Scripture and he is not qualified to teach others the Word of God.

  13. deeply concerned Jan 8, 2015 12:16 pm

    Jimmy…YES. I hear on and on and on about PN but rarely talk about the Holy Spirit. Very troubling. No defending of God’s word whatsoever.

  14. Amazed Jan 8, 2015 6:29 pm

    I am disappointed in the manner at which others choose to respond to this slanderous article. Just by reading the first several paragraphs it becomes evident that the person righting this has something against Pastor Perry Noble. Not once do I find proof that the author even considered the point given by Noble during the service, instead immediately dismissing it as unchristian and poorly thought out. Just because he speaks for a large following does not mean he must be bound by the conventions that has followed the church for centuries. Obviously that is not working, as church attendance across the nation is at an all time low. We should be join Pastor Perry in his endeavors to spark interest in religion again, as God is humanities last hope. As for the allegations about the use of the N word, it was simply a misspoken moment. He claims it was a slip of the tongue. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

    • Stephen Jan 8, 2015 10:44 pm

      Funny, after a year at NewSpring, Perry Noble nearly drove me to reject Christianity and become an atheist.

    • JO Jan 9, 2015 5:02 pm

      Slander is spoken, libel is written/published. They have to defame character. Pointing out Perry’s sloppy theology isn’t defaming character lol.

      @Stephen – I had the same experience. It took me two years before walking back into a church.

    • RJS Jan 10, 2015 3:11 pm

      Our current church is failing. Article after article tells us the people are leaving the church in droves. It’s a perfect opportunity for people like Noble to jump in and manipulate the Gospel. Listen people, this was no “slip of the tongue”. It was an entire sermon that is available for anyone to see. watch it. Who has a slip of the tongue for 45 minutes?

      Then some are saying he deserves credit for generating “interest” in the dying church. Well let’s not stop with re-writing God’s Commandments. Let’s tell people he was in the Rolling Stones. Imagine how many lost souls we’ll get. Utter stupidity. An embarrassment not only to Christians, but non-Christians alike.

      He exemplifies everything wrong with the church today.

      If you find “THE” Bible too boring to preach from, get another job!

  15. Old curmudgeon Jan 8, 2015 7:38 pm

    I wish his friend from Israel would’ve said there is no Hebrew word for “relevant.”

  16. Joseph D. Jan 8, 2015 10:14 pm

    Interesting to say the least: After seeing this post, reading Mr. Duncan’s blog and listening to Perry Noble’s sermon, several observations: 1)The word command, as well as commandment, is used to translate the Hebrew word mits’vah but does not properly convey the meaning of mits’vah. The word command implies words of force or power as a General commands his troops. The word mits’vah is better understood as a directive. To see the picture painted by this word it is helpful to look at a related word, tsiyon meaning a desert or a landmark. The Ancient Hebrews were a nomadic people who traveled the deserts in search of green pastures for their flocks. A nomad uses the various rivers, mountains, rock outcroppings, etc as landmarks to give them their direction. The verb form of mits’vah is tsavah meaning to direct one on a journey. The mits’vah of the Bible are not commands, or rules and regulations, they are directives or landmarks that we look for to guide us. The word tsiyon meaning landmark is also the word translated as Zion, the mountain of God but, not just a mountain, it is the landmark. Given this translation, the manner in which Perry Noble presented the ten commandments is indeed appropriate, and even inspirational. 2) Noble’s use of the N word, questionable, but I can see where one could (judgingly) extrapolate that conclusion; however, the video and audio of this sermon is not conclusive to exact use of the N word. Even if Noble did indeed say the N word, we as Christians are to forgive him. WWJD- Hate the sin and love the sinner. 3) The primary “message” delivered by Noble is one of God’s grace, demonstrated by what our lives can be like if we observe His “landmarks” (i.e. mitzvah). Clearly and repeatedly stated throughout the message is the the only way any of us can receive God’s grace and achieve such a life – “say yes to Jesus”. In conclusion, it is my opinion thar those individuals who have judged Perry Noble by scrutinizing his message in a social media forum need the same love and forgiveness that Jesus gave to His enemies the day they crucified Him on the cross. Prayers and peace to all…

    • RJS Jan 10, 2015 3:15 pm

      Where do find his translations of the commandments/promises in the Bible? No one here said they are not forgiving him. Remember forgiveness does not guarantee absence repercussion.

  17. Ed Jan 8, 2015 10:32 pm

    In a recent blog posts, Perry Noble Blog seems to clear up any misconceptions and states that he feels the Ten commandments are still relevant and acknowledges that they are not only commands but a pathway to blessings. Do you feel this settles the issue and we can move on?

    Excerpt from link to perrynoble.com
    Perry Noble says”
    Learning that the ten commandments are not just commands, but rather way finding arrows that point us to all the promises of God that are ‘Yes’ for us in Christ (II Corinthians 1:20).”

  18. Stephen Jan 8, 2015 10:53 pm

    If you want a prime example of Noble’s vile abuse of Holy Scripture, listen to his message the Elevation’s Code Orange Revival: link to youtube.com

  19. Pingback: Jesus Called Them Commandments, Mr. Noble - Stand Up For The Truth

  20. Lane Jan 9, 2015 8:34 pm

    It’s a shame that productive dialogue seems to have no place among the avid Newspring haters (most of whom seem to base their opinions only on second hand info). God will either bless Newspring, or curse its efforts. In the meantime, those that are threatened by Newspring and concerned about Perry’s preaching had better get it in gear and start promoting the Gospel themselves. It would be interesting to know the amount of time folks spend being critical of Newspring versus the amount of time they spend winning others to Christ. Hopefully, they understand the difference between those two things.

  21. Pingback: Perry Noble called out by pastors on his false teaching | churchwatch central

  22. Impressed Outsider Jan 13, 2015 1:43 am

    Why is it necessary, all of a sudden to re-examine the ten commandments? They’ve been the backbone of teaching basic fundamental Christianity for centuries. All of the New Spring supporters on this blog have failed to grasp the true issue here. (as well as the unbiased bloggers) Every religion known to both eastern & western societies require followers to be heavily vested, mentally and physically as to be able to demonstrate proficancy in the core values. Example kind of hard to take a child of God’s testimony seriously if they state false scripture but equally important if this same person is morbidly obese. And don’t be offended as I’m not dissing fat people. However, how vested would a true christian seem to someone who knows what the bible says about our body being a temple. To get back to my point; religion requires discipline. Period. Jesus’ teachings can be seen or interpreted that if you truly are a believer you should sell your worldly possessions and spread the gospel 24/7. If you are truly a Christ follower you should be knee deep in your bible throughout the day and spending even more time on your knees in prayer.
    I see none of that at any churches now and haven’t in a long time. I see even less of it at New Spring. If NS or Perry truly believe in Jesus then why can’t they go the first 20 minutes of each service without asking for $$$? If Jesus could turn water into wine I’m sure he could pay rent right? Do you guys really think Jesus would be okay with a Newspring service? What would Christ say abouy the multi-million dollar building and facilities? How does Jesus feel about Perry’s six figure salary?
    Newspring, Perry & staff have twisted and contorted a discipline based, peaceful religion to make it user friendly to a population that isn’t willing to pay the true price for salvation; let alone dedicate the time necessary to read God’s word. Religion isn’t supposed to be fun, its a constant state of sacrifice, both mentally and physically. Discipline demanding, prayer is a form of meditation that helps believers cancel out the noise and produce a one on one channel of communication with the man upstairs.
    And this isn’t an assault on Newspring or Perry but more of a general observation on the modern church. I do see these issues more prevelant at NS but thats because I’ve been in attendance recently.
    Another glaring issue that noone seems to address is the church & congregation’s emphasis on Perry. I truly believe he is bigger than the church and in many ways praised on the same if not higher level than Jesus. Give the guy props because he’s a great speaker and genius businessman. He used something that is powerful enough that people actually believe their eternal souls hang in the balance based on their acceptance of a supreme being who died for their souls, and requires those that want to know him to eat his flesh and drink his blood; he used this philosiphy and created the vehicle to deliver his comedic, quasi-doctrine based performances to make himself rich while building an empire. Kudos Pastor P! The church might actually feel negated when Forbes requests an interview LOL.
    I enjoyed reading everyones comments earlier and apologize for being all over the place with this post. I for one would like to see NS incorporate a more accountability approach, be less compromising, stop trying to keep up with the times and get back to basics.

  23. Lee Jan 13, 2015 11:27 pm

    Impressed Outsider,

    What did Jesus call the discipline and religion of the Pharisees and Sadducees? They apparently missed Jesus because of their blind hearts stuck in dogma an church doctrine. Have you sold all of your possessions and read the bible and pray 24/7. If you do, praise God! If you do not, get the plank out of your own eye before the splinter from your brother.

    Knowing Jesus can be fun! Are you saying that Jesus never laughed or had fun. You talk a lot about religion and religious works and little about a personal relationship with The Lord. I for one would like to see other Christians influencing their respective churchs to make a difference in the community without worrying about NSs every sermon, building, salary, salvation, baptism, owner, staff, etc. I hope none of you create these criticisms because of fleshly motivations and agendas. Like that doesn’t go on!

    • David Rhee Jan 14, 2015 11:29 am

      Lee,

      Honestly, you are clearly not seeing the Truth clearly and missing the point..

      For one, judging fellow brothers are what we call discernment and rebuking.. That is clearly written in the Word of God.. The issue is where does your judgment come from is the issue.. As Christians, it is not from ourselves but from the Word of God (see the absolute standard)…

      2 Tim. 3:16-17
      16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

      You can’t correct something if you don’t reproof (or rebuke) the error in the first place.. So Christians are going to make judgment call especially within the body of Christ (especially those who profess to be “Christian” like PN states himself to be)..

      Another analogy.. Just say a Christian brother intends to murder someone. What would you do? From your statement, it is none of your business and to each their own… But being a Christian, “Thou shalt not kill” or “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13) would be a clear and direct statement that what my Christian brother is doing and thinking is wrong… So are you telling me that I can’t point that out (I am making a judgmental call on the matter).. You see it is not based upon my personal belief alone but rather my belief that came from the very written Word of God….

      First off, Sadduccees and Pharisees are not part of the Church… They are part of the religious institution called Judaism. Secondly, your argument that they were stuck on church doctrine is wrong… Rather the Pharisees and Sadduccees focused on the Torah and the Talmud…

      What you are making a mistake is that both of the Jewish group made their beliefs to be over God…

      Matthew 23:23
      “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

      Though tithe was expected of all Jews, tithe everything to dill and cummin was really Talmud (and not Torah)… But you see how they neglect the weightier matter.. Hence, DOCTRINE?

      That is what hypocrites are… Those who believe their perceptions and views has much more weightier matter.. See how the Biblical definition of the 10 Commandments are explicit stated in the Word of God, of what Jesus preached and taught, and even in the Jewish history… So are you telling me that PN has a newer perspective that is better than what God has clearly written in the Word of God? As Christians, our beliefs are not in our interpretation but what is exegetically stated by the very Word of God… Eisegesis is reading into the Word of God (adding your view into the Biblical interpretation)…

      Lastly, just because I don’t sell all my possessions, read the Bible constantly, and not pray 24/7 don’t mean that I am not to discern, rebuke, and judge another brother (those 3 words are synonymous because there is judgment to take place..) of their sin.. That is what I usually call an intervention (again, you are making a judgment call and action)… Does not the Bible tell Christians to discern the Truth that is preached by fellow brothers… Was not the Bereans highly commended by Paul in that they listen to Paul’s teaching and check it to what the Holy Word of God states? Just because you are sinful, don’t negate the Truth or fact… Just so you know, we are all sinful (including Paul and Peter) but didn’t they not judge the false teachers (who profess to be Christians) as shown in the NT..

      Again, just because some critique and rebuke don’t equate fleshly motivations and agendas.. Why don’t you check PN on his fleshly motivations and agendas? It seems odd that you give PN a pass on the very thing you are criticizing those who post here…

      Though I care for unity in the body of Christ (ecumenism), what you fail to see is that PN is not a Christians by his own theology. He does not repent of his sins.. An apology does not equate mournful repentance (if you check his apology, he still do not change his stance on Commandments being Promises/Sayings)… I pray that he does repent and be part of the body of Christ but to assume he is… Well, it is just blind the reality and facts..

      I would kindly ask that you discern yourself because you make false pretense and assume others are on wrong pretenses.. It seems to be the other way around.. Making a difference in the community is one thing (heck, a church scandal could impact the community) but doing it Biblically would be what the Church is supposed to do… You should ask yourself that question..

  24. Lee Jan 14, 2015 3:53 pm

    David Rhee

    My last comments were addressing comments to “impressed outsider”. As for your comments:

    The only truth is the word of God, not a man’s interpretation unless inspired by the Holy Spirit. No point missed by me. I do think one can rebuke another brother or sister whom claims to be a follower of Jesus. I do not think a follower of Jesus can declare a person saved or not saved based on works, looks, knowledge of scripture, or any other measurement you can come up with on earth.

    As for your murder analogy, that is a pretty patronizing comment. However, Jesus clarified even further in Matthew 5:21-22: if you are even angry with your brother, it is the same judgement as murder.

    Wow, it would of been great to be at the exposure level to Jesus that Paul and Peter had. That would of been a more pure understanding of Jesus’ words. In leu of what religious leaders to day are taught. The Hebrew roots would of been better understood and the different doctrines and dogma promoted by different churches and denominations would not have of infiltrated to the level of today. Seminary’s would not be teaching the works theology so prevalent in the US church today.

    I was addressing someone else’s comments about selling it all, etc. I can not think of any folks in my life that do that, including myself. Every man that is not Jesus has fleshly thoughts and intentions. I do not give PN a pass or protect him in anyway. He makes mistakes and admits to them. I have seen him do it! I do not go to NS because I think PN is all of that. I go because most of the other denominational churches I have attended have already failed miserably as examples of the Church. The leaders taught against the Word of God and they had fleshly agendas and intentions. They were doing all the things you accuse PN of.

    Please excuse me for saying the Pharasees and Sadducees were the church. The Church is the Body of Christ. It is also not the buildings and denominations set up by man. I should of stated “the religious institution of Jesus’s time.” Just as the denominations and most church buildings are of this time.

    Making a difference for Jesus is the only thing I met. Things against Jesus are hardly what I met! However, everything on this blog has to turn into a negative. No one wants to throw there church name out on the blog. Why! Because we all know that there are bones in the closet in most and no one wants to hear the negatives of their pastor or church.

    I doubt that I will ever frequent this blog again. It does nothing healthy for my Christian walk. Instead of wasting time to banter with other brothers ans sisters, I should of been studying the Word. By the way, I typically have pretty good discernment in the things of the world I need to stay away from. That Holy Spirit discernment will come if needed concerning NS like it has when I attended other churches. As for now, my discernment is telling me to stay away from this evil blog. Even though, each of you have the most Godly intentions I am sure. It does not make the blod less evil! I can only pray for my church and pastor as well as the folks on this blog.

    Take care!

    • David Rhee Jan 14, 2015 5:14 pm

      Lee,

      Just to be clear… I believe we concur the Truth is the Word of God.. I do not see where we differ on the matter.. I think we both will agree that the free gift of salvation, which is determined and given by God, is not merited by our works or righteousness BUT rather the righteousness of Christ.. Do we agree?

      So you are right that someone could know Jesus but does not mean he is saved.. But that is not argument I am making that you stated (or at least implied) to the other gentleman in your post.. Let me explain..

      Salvation does have certain component that a Christian will not only come to accept but will definitely state to be true and necessary to be a Christian… This is not a requirement, it is the very outcome of our transformation… This is what the Bible talks about the bearing of fruits… The fruits are all founded by the theology that you come to believe (or in this analogy.. what Christian IS)

      1) The 3 Gospels taught and emphasizes the importance of REPENTANCE.. That is a CORE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.. WE are all sinful by nature and we are spiritually bankrupt and can’t save ourselves to the wrath and justice of God (which we are guilty of due to our sinful nature)
      2) As John builds on the 3 gospels, his gospel emphasize the importance of BELIEF or believing.. The belief that you are spiritually bankrupt and have no means to be right with God.. That you have faith and trust in the righteousness of Jesus and His works.. That He atone for our sins, died on the cross, and rose again from dead..

      Again, these are Christian core doctrines and foundation to our faith…

      So if you don’t believe in the Christian doctrine (which the early churches taught) that still propagates today (though not as much due to many false teachings), I would question your salvation.. That your theology is in error.. That is what we call discernment (our beliefs matter) I am not talking about understanding it intellectually but belief as your core value in what you stand for (heart; however sinful it may be).. You seem to think that doctrines don’t matter.. BUT IT DOES! Creed is as important as deed. You know why? You could do good works but if you don’t have the right belief, you are not saved.. If you tell me that I am wrong, it would equate Gandhi as being saved for his love of his neighbors.. But he is Hinduist..

      Now, does that mean Christians are not to have good works.. Of course, they do! But a fruit tree does not have to think of how to bear fruits.. It bears fruits because of what it is.. It is a fruit tree.

      You are right that I am not the ultimate judge on who is saved or not.. But a Christian by his regeneration will affirm these very core Christian beliefs and doctrines.. That is the very nature that comes from justification and sanctification…

      Again, your point about murder is something I completely agree.. Just like lusting in your heart is the same as committing adultery.. BUT that does not excuse the importance of discernment and hence a judgment about someone’s thought or action based upon the Word of God.. And the way you are stating it, are we to tolerate sin? Did Jesus tolerate sin (like false teaching)? No… So I don’t get your point..

      Funny, you state that we would have a more pure understanding of Jesus’s Word in His time… Yet, we do have that and it is called the Holy Bible! It is God-breathed (inspired and exhaled to us from God Himself)… It is a literally autobiography from God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit. And it is so simple that a child to come to believe in Jesus Christ and have as much depth that shows His grace to mankind..

      The traditions are not what I talking about.. Doctrines are based on TRUTH! So I do not get your point on the matter.. Also, that is what many apologetic are able to do in defense of the Gospel and Christ… This is the same basis to discern and clearly show an error like in false teaching.. Denominations that are Biblical would have all the same catholic (universal), core Christian foundation and doctrine.. They might have different emphasis but the core don’t change.. What NS and PN has done is to question or disagree with the core Christian beliefs!! That is the ISSUE (10 Commandments are just Saying/Promises is not a change in core Christian beliefs?)! Just saying that I am sorry and then go back to the same argument that I made prior.. Is that really an apology? No… See there is no willful mourning or changing of the heart… Also, no church is perfect.. All churches are full of hypocrites (I know that).. Full of sinners! BUT you seem to make that argument to equate the PN and NS is the same as these other churches.. Well, did you even check the doctrine they are preaching and proclaiming? That is what you need to focus on.. That is what is being represented by those other churches? Could the church be unloving? Yes.. Could the church be wrong in some of the secondary doctrine? Yes.. But a church don’t fault on what a Christian church is to believe in its core! If not, it would not be a Church of Christ! That is what most of the heresy lies upon.. The substitution of the true gospel to a replacement.. Arianism that question the Deity of Christ… Pelgianism that question the sinful nature of human (original sin)…

      Well, you might not know those who have sold everything but I do.. Also, if you know the Word of God, it shows another example in Barnabus.. Does that mean we are all to sell everything? No.. I concur your stance on it but being a good steward of God’s blessings and gifts are there to edify the Church… So I am in many ways agreeing with you..

      So you ask why are so many people so negative? Negative based upon what? We are confronting his preaching and his theology.. I doubt Dr. Duncan was attacking PN personally but what he profess to believe (that does not align to the Word of God) and preach… So you know, I have questioned my pastor and done it.. So again, your point? This is not about churches and their reputations.. It is about Christ and who HE IS! That is the issue.. Again, you are missing the point. PN is not preaching who Christ is.. He is not preaching Christ-centered.. He is preaching humanism and what God could do for you (and yes, I have listened to multiple sermons of us to know what his theology is.. It is that clear)…

      The job of the body of Christ is to ensure the purity and rightful handling of the Truth.. If you don’t like the Truth, you need to question God.. Because the Scriptures clearly point that we are to discern, show an error to those who profess to be Christians… Well, if you don’t like the negative, I guess you don’t like the Bible.. Doesn’t the Bible proclaim and made many JUDGMENTS FROM GOD TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL through the prophets? That they need to stop their wicked ways and to repent? Again, a negative is not necessarily evil..

      I would kindly ask you should discern if I am in error? I don’t need the Holy Spirit to nudge on the matter.. The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible and it clearly states what I post to be Biblically founded.. If you don’t come back, I pray that you could see the Truth.. Not my own but God!

    • learning every day Jan 15, 2015 7:57 pm

      To Lee, (who may have left the building)

      I haven’t thrown out my church name because I’m not trying to recruit to my church, as I wrote earlier, the goal is not to shut down NS, but to call it to repentance (pastor and flock) that it’s teaching, structure, and practices might be conformed to the Scriptures.

      But I’m not ashamed of it, and any skeletons in the closet can be dealt with in established procedures through the oversight of elders according to our confession of faith and church polity principles.

      I am currently a member of a conservative Presbyterian church, where both local and regional elders would intervene immediately if someone preached what Noble did on Christmas Eve, or if pastoral staff issued the troubling statements that the church staff and Noble posted afterwards.

      But having said that, there are many churches that are not Presbyterian that try to carefully follow biblical principles for doctrine, church structure, worship, evangelism, missions, compassion to the poor, etc. including some congregations within the SBC.

      If you are genuinely interested in seeking out a church that models itself on what the Bible teaches rather than a popular personality or what polls say it’s target audience wants to hear, whose owner is Jesus, not the members themselves, I would suggest you start by using the “9 Marks” of a biblical church identified by Mark Dever (who is SBC) 9marks.org, and also the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals (www.alliancenet.org) which includes Baptists, Congregational, Independent, Presbyterian, Reformed, and Lutheran churches.

      I know that in Anderson there are congregations that follow demonstrate the nine Marks, and some that are connected with the ACE, but I hope that NewSpring itself will turn to the Scriptures as their sole authority for faith and practice.

      • Jordan Jan 16, 2015 11:11 am

        @learning every day:

        I hope that NewSpring itself will turn to the Scriptures as their sole authority for faith and practice.

        What did the early church, let’s say from 30 A.D. to 395 A.D., use as its authority for faith and practice? As an aside, I am neither a member nor a defender of NS but was just hoping you could expand on your statement.

        • Humblylearning Jan 16, 2015 4:20 pm

          I know the question was for the person above, but I thought I’d throw out some thoughts. As far as I’ve studied, we know the Colossians letter was circulated to the church at Laodicea (Col 3:16), and Paul instructed the Colossians to read the letter coming from Laodicea. Perhaps that suggests other of the letters we read as Scripture were circulated around as well for usage for the early church to follow as Scripture. So I would think it seems reasonably plausible to conclude that the early church had similar Scripture as we did to use as authority for faith and practice. It would also seem plausible to conclude they thought of the letters as Scripture as we do with Peter seeming to refer to Paul’s letters as such in 2 Pet 3:16. We also know the Bereans were stated to have used Scripture as well to examine Paul’s teachings (Acts 17:11), which seems to suggest they followed it as an authoritative source, and it’s also interesting that the Apostles often quoted from Old Testament Scripture in their teachings throughout Acts and in their letters. Perhaps the early Church didn’t necessarily have all the Scripture together as we do now, but nonetheless, there still appears to be examples of primarily using Scripture as authority for faith and practice, like we do. I don’t know if that answers your question, but just thought I’d throw a thought out there.

          • Jordan Jan 17, 2015 9:30 am

            @Humblylearning:

            Thanks for your thoughtful response. I tend to agree with most of what you wrote. I do have a follow-up question for you, though. In learning every day‘s original post, he asked that NS and Noble return to using Scripture as the sole authority for faith and practice. On the other hand, it seems that your post suggest that Scripture is the primary authority for faith and practice (“there still appears to be examples of primarily using Scripture as authority for faith and practice, like we do.”). Do you think that the early or modern Churches had or have other authorities for faith and practice?

          • Humblylearning Jan 17, 2015 12:48 pm

            Before I answer that, I mistakenly put col 3:16 in my last response, when it was actually col 4:16 that makes the remark about the circulating of the Colossians letter to Laodicea. In response to your question, for the body of Christ up to 100 AD, which from my understanding is when the last Apostle died, from as much as I can recall reading I conclude their authority for faith and practice was the Apostles letters, their direct access to the Apostles themselves when they visited, and in the instances where Paul mentions the gifts of the Spirit, perhaps that as well could be suggested to have also been an authority for faith and practice within the early church when one was utilized.

            Beyond 100 AD, I think gradually Scripture becomes the sole authority for faith and practice, with the Apostles writings being circulated as way of informing people, and early church fathers gradually putting together the New Testament canon for people to follow as the authentic information and knowledge of Christianity. As I see it today, I think if Scripture is said to be God-breathed, useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16), then I would conclude this implies it has all the right information, and it would seem to suggest there need not be any other authority on faith and practice other than Scripture. As far as whether the gifts of the Spirit still play a role in authority for faith and practice as it at times appeared to in Scripture, I think that’s debatable.

          • Jordan Jan 17, 2015 2:43 pm

            I conclude their authority for faith and practice was the Apostles letters, their direct access to the Apostles themselves when they visited, and in the instances where Paul mentions the gifts of the Spirit, perhaps that as well

            Any ideas on why the the successors of the Apostles didn’t have the same authority as the Apostles themselves, or do you think that the authority continued in the Apostles’ successors?

          • James Duncan Jan 17, 2015 2:53 pm

            I’m going to be writing about this topic in a future post, but in a nutshell, the early church had the Bible within the lifetime of the Apostles. It was that Bible that exercised authority in the church, meaning that there was no need for successors to have apostolic authority.

          • Jordan Jan 17, 2015 5:38 pm

            Dr Duncan,

            I definitely look forward to your post about Apostolic authority. I would like to briefly respond to the two points you made. First, you asserted that the “early church had the Bible within the lifetime of the Apostles.” While what we now call “books” of the NT were probably composed within the lifetime of the Apostles, there was no “Bible” as we know it today. In fact, many of the early churches probably only had a few of the epistles or gospels that now make up the Bible. It seems difficult to conclude that they could have used the “Bible” as their sole rule of faith and practice when they only had certain letters or Gospels, some of which were later canonized. Moreover, it seems that the Apostles recognized the validity of their oral authority (Acts 15 and II Thessalonians 2:15), and that they recognized that their authority derived from an office, which passed to successors upon their deaths (Acts 1:20-22).

            Second, you assert that there “was no need for successors to have apostolic authority.” As I mentioned above, the Twelve chose a replacement for Judas Iscariot, which would hardly seem necessary if they didn’t recognize their positions as offices with successors. Also, with the benefit of hindsight, we know that the great majority of Christians in the past and the present accept Apostolic succession. Obviously Truth is not determined by majority vote, but I think this fact should at least give the minority cause to reexamine their departure from the majority. Out of curiosity, how do you interpret Acts 1:20-22?

          • Jordan Jan 18, 2015 9:51 am

            I forgot to ask this above, but I’ll throw it out there now for humblylearning, learning every day, Dr. Duncan or anyone else who cares to respond. I’ll assume for purposes of this question that you assent to the Nicene Creed. If so, what do we mean when we say, “I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church”?

          • David Rhee Jan 18, 2015 10:37 am

            The word apostolic is in reference that the church would uphold and be rooted in what was taught by the apostles.

            When the early church were growing, there were proliferation of many false teachings that would teach something similar (substitute that replace) to the Gospel but was not based on the teaching of the Jesus and apostles (who were His students). Some of these false teachings were based on philosophy, old traditions, etc.. which distort and was contrary to what was taught.. Some examples are the false teaching of the Judaizers (adding the old convenant as a requirement for salvation to the Christians), Agnostics (secret knowledge you have to attain), antinomianism (since we are saved by grace, we could continue to live a sinful life since we saved; meaning no willful heart to repent of the sins), Montanism (which went on the other end where you are to go beyond the Law where it added to the Scripture), Arianism, Pelagianism, etc. These are just to name a few…

            So apostolic church will be firm on the what was taught by Jesus and the continued work and explanation from the apostles (which they all point back to the Gospel). I am being careful with the word, “revelation” because the epistles are revelation BUT they are to explain, clarify, and elaborate the Gospel in its full meaning.

            They were appointed by Christ to proclaim the gospel and provide clear interpretation of the Gospel (hence, the epistles and letters do just that).. Also, this would imply that after the apostles, there will no longer be prophets and apostles that would need for new revelation from the Word of God.. That is why we are firm in the Bible as the sole authority of Truth (Sola Scriptura)..

          • Jordan Jan 18, 2015 5:05 pm

            David Rhee,

            Thanks for your response. I’m hoping you can expand on your last paragraph a bit. Speaking of the Apostles, you stated, “They were appointed by Christ to proclaim the gospel and provide clear interpretation of the Gospel.” Wouldn’t the Apostles had to have an authority separate from Scripture in order to be able to authoritatively interpret it? And most importantly, wouldn’t that authority have continued in the successors of the Apostles? For example, you mentioned two heresies, Arianism and Pelagianism. Both of these heretics lived well after the Apostles died, and both heretics used Scripture to support their heretical positions. Doesn’t that seem to suggest that the Apostles and their successors had authority to definitively interpret Scripture?

          • David Rhee Jan 18, 2015 10:59 pm

            Dear Jordan,

            Authority and Appointment:
            Most appointments that were pertaining to prophets, priests, and kings were done by God… These appointments could be passed down by generation to generation (as we could see some examples in OT like King David to Solomon) but it is not always the case. Again, the appointment for all these positions was and would be made by God and not man (so yes, even the priests from generation to generation would be appointed by God).

            The apostles are similar in the sense that they were appointed by Christ.. But the difference was that apostles are not positions (or titles) that could be passed down generation to generation.. Any of the apostles can not appoint anyone else to be an apostle because they have no authority to do that (only God)… They appointed pastors, preachers, elders, etc. but you don’t hear the word apostle beside the who Christ appointed (even Saul was appointed by Jesus during trip to Damascus)..

            I would like to point out before we get into the question of authority.. The Word of God is very autobiography/biography of who God is.. So Word of God reflects who God is (hence, when Jesus rebuked the Pharisees when they had searched all of the Scripture and did not realize the Scripture pointed to Him). To start out,
            Apostle’s authority was given by Jesus..

            Let’s use an analogy:
            Jesus is the king who govern and decrees the law. So his authority is very clear since he dictate the rules of the land and he appoints to His will.. His law would be the Word of God…

            The apostles are considered judges in my analogy. Do they have authority? Yes and only if they are appointed by Christ (which they were).. Judges are to interpret the law but has to be consistent to the very rules of the law and king.. So they have the authority to interpret the Word of God but it can’t be contrary to the what is clearly decreed.

            What I hope this analogy (how poor it could be), is that you could have judges who have authority to interpret the Word of God but do not necessarily circumvent or have equal footing in authority to the Word of God.. Word of God (Jesus being the Word becoming Flesh) is the very authority that gave them the authority and would not be equal or above Him..

            I also reflect upon a scientist and his/her discovery.. When a scientist discover a natural law, they could have the power to observe and interpret natural law (that is happening) but does not have the power to change the natural law in itself… They need to be consistent to the evidences they have discovered. Or else, their discovery would not be real..
            Side Note:
            One thing I would like to address is the question of apostleship.. I happened to be a cessationist who don’t believe the apostolic gifts are present today (that it expired with the death of the apostles). I would state some believers might not necessarily agree with this stance and could be open for discussion.

            Question of heresy:
            The issue with heresy is again, a wrong interpretation that is based on not only lies but the willful attempt to speak of almost Truth (which is not the Truth at all).. So you know even Satan uses God’s Word to deceive by questioning its Truth (as he did with Adam and Eve where they believe the serpent to think that they will surely not die) as well as the tempting of Jesus… So just using the Scripture verse is not enough (which is why you hear people rebuking PN about his poor hermeneutics). It is important to read the Bible and its context to understand the Truth.. And that is what the apostles did with the Gospel (remember, there were nothing but OT that people could rely upon).. The epistles were the expansion and depth in the interpretation of the OT and of Christ…

            The issue with heretical teaching is that they contradict a core or key Biblical doctrine that is explicitly stated in the Word of God.. Again, heretical teaching and its authority would mimic to be from the Word of God but in reality it is not.. It is something else…

            Again, title of apostle are not even mention after the disciples and Paul…

  25. learning every day Jan 18, 2015 1:19 am

    Hi Jordan,
    You ask a lot of good questions, I only have time to respond briefly.
    Regarding “sole authority,” I don’t mean that we can interpret Scripture in a vacuum, completely independent of history, tradition, culture, personality, etc. That kind of naivety is the most dangerous because it never self-analyzes its own interpretative assumptions. But on the other hand, to be an “authority,” that is, the court of final appeal in matters of doctrine and practice, the Scripture must be out sole authority, not just a primary authority. To have multiple authorities would be like the US continuing to keep the Articles of Confederation as a governing doctrine after the Constitution was ratified–different courts could appeal to different documents. This is why tradition, as influential as it is on all of our thinking (those who think they are rebelling against tradition are being affected by tradition the most in some instances), cannot be put on a par with Scripture. Even though we may not agree on how to interpret it, if we can agree that Scripture rules, then we can learn from each other and grow closer to agreement, abandoning less valid interpretations and hopefully not letting our personalities, preferences, comforts, traditions, cultures, etc. come in the way of our embracing a better understanding of what Scripture teaches on a particular matter when we are shown such.

    Regarding the first century church’s Scripture, of course, they had the Hebrew Scriptures, frequently cited in the NT, and Paul mentions them being taught in every city with a synagogue, Ethiopian was able to buy an Isaiah scroll, etc. Besides the apostles’ and other disciples’ oral testimony (more than 500 who saw Jesus after death), there is very good reason to believe all the New Testament books, written by the apostles or their companions (Mark, Luke, perhaps the author of Hebrews) were written within the first century, that is, within the life times of the apostles themselves. In terms of access and distribution, of course not all congregations had instant access, just as today, there remain thousands of language communities in the world that have only part of the Bible or none of the Bible translated. But there is reason to believe that Paul kept copies of his own letters as others in the Hellenistic world did, and copies of his collection could be made relatively quickly, though not cheaply, by professional scribes or Christian volunteers. All over the Greek-speaking world, professional amanuenses (scribes) could be easily hired to copy documents accurately, and messengers could be employed to deliver them, though Paul often preferred to send letters with personal friends. Though there was no internet or mobile phones, the first-century Roman empire was more networked and sophisticated in terms of communication than we moderns often give them credit for. I recommend E. Randolph Richards Paul and First-Century Letter Writing: Secretaries, Composition and Collection, for more on how the early church was able to obtain and use the apostles’ writings quite early on. For more on the early churches’ recognition of the canon, I would recommend the writings of Michael Kruger, Andreas Kostenburger and Daniel Wallace, though there are many others I could list also. Though liberal scholars will dispute the conclusions of the four scholars I’ve cited here, among conservative scholars, regardless of whether they are Baptist, Assemblies of God, Anglican, Reformed, etc. there is, by and large, agreement.

  26. Taylor Jan 22, 2015 9:38 am

    One of the more heart breaking things for me about this quasi-apology is his clear rejection of what Matthew 15 says about the heart and a man’s words.

    “Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.” – Matt 15.17-18

    There have been plenty times in my life where I had to seriously repent of the things I’ve said and the ways I’ve spoken to or about someone. And true repentance is acknowledging that you said those things as an overflow from a sinful heart that has a propensity towards chaos. Paul, Peter, and James all seem to be pretty fixated on how your words, as an overflow from your heart, can be destructive (especially intense in James 3.6).

    There was a real opportunity for humility and the object lesson that people of peace speak words of peace, and while we all fail, we should consistently be repenting and and seeking restoration under the Church… but instead we got a discreet rejection of a scriptural truth.

    • Tommy Jan 22, 2015 12:02 pm

      You really hit the nail on the head with that one. The interim pastor at our church several years back once stated, “The tongue is the tattletale that tells on the heart.” How true that is. If our hearts are filled with profanity, our mouths will spew forth profanity. If our hearts are filled with truth, then our mouths will pour out truth. That’s why it’s so important to implement Psalm 119:11 in all our lives. “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.”

  27. Pingback: Baptists’ Message to NewSpring: You’re not one of us – Guest Post by James Duncan of PajamaPages | The Wartburg Watch 2014

  28. ohmy Jan 26, 2015 5:57 pm

    Oh my! This sure is a lot to take in! I think the best thing we as Christians can all do is to pray. Pray for the church as a whole, pray for PN and NS. Pray that God’s will be done. I have concerns about NS. I worry that Noble is seeking attention for himself rather than for God. I worry that it is too much about numbers and not enough about a true relationship with God. I do think NS does a great job of reaching the un-churched, and those that feel other churches are not for them. I just pray that what is taught is of God and from the bible. I also pray that we not let this separate us. We are all under the same God.

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