Noble rescinds the Ten Commandments for 2015 356

(1/2/2015: Updated with NewSpring’s response. See at the end of the post.)

On Christmas Eve, Perry Noble gifted the world a rewritten Ten Commandments. In so doing, he contradicted Scripture, celebrated his ignorance of the Bible, and ultimately rejected the gospel.

NewSpring was excited that God had given Noble a new Christmas Eve message

NewSpring was excited that God had given Noble a new Christmas Eve message

NewSpring had repeated its Christmas service during the week before Christmas day, yet before the final pre-Christmas service, word went out over the NewSpring social media grapevine that Noble had a new sermon, so everybody should come back to hear it.

Noble raised the stakes at the outset, saying that God had told him the previous day that he needed to deliver this sermon. After some of Noble’s staff confirmed for him that he had heard God speak, Noble wrote the sermon in ten minutes. It showed, but it also provided a disquieting glimpse into Noble’s biblical illiteracy. More than illiteracy, it was biblical rebellion.

Noble denies the Commandments

Noble spent Christmas eve explaining away all ten commandments

Noble spent Christmas Eve explaining away all ten Commandments

Noble’s premise was that what we erroneously know as the Ten Commandments aren’t really commandments. They’re just God’s promises.

He knows this because a Jewish friend who was driving him around Israel told him that there’s no Hebrew word for command. Noble acknowledges that he knows no Hebrew (as if that’s an acceptable thing for a preacher to remain ignorant of), so he takes his driver’s word as fact. Noble describes his friend as being to him as Mr. Miyagi is to the Karate Kid. “I just love this man,” Noble says. “He is full of wisdom. He loves Jesus. …He’s just an amazing man of God, and he’s teaching me the Bible. I’m trying to spend as much time with him as possible and he’s teaching me the Bible.” His friend is a poor teacher, and Noble is an even worse student.

Noble’s tutor tells him that the Ten Commandments are a mirage. Initially, Noble is surprised.

This is weird, because I’ve been around the Ten Commandments all my life. But in the original Hebrew language, there’s no word for command, so it couldn’t have been the Ten Commandments. He said it’s best translated as the Ten Sayings. Then he said this: ‘You could also interpret it as the Ten Promises of God.’ Instead of Ten Commandments that you have to keep if you’re going to be a follower of Jesus, they’re actually ten promises that you can receive when you say yes to Jesus.

Noble then announces that he is going to persuade his audience to say yes to Jesus because they no longer have to worry about obeying the commandments. Before we get to his rewritten commandments, let’s quickly debunk his erroneous premise.

The entire Old Testament is full of references to God’s commands and to the Ten Commandments in particular. In fact, in Deuteronomy 5, the second presentation of the Ten Commandments, God follows the list by repeatedly referring to his law as commands.

Oh that they had such a heart as this always, to fear me and to keep all my commandments, that it might go well with them and with their descendants forever! Go and say to them, “Return to your tents.”

But you, stand here by me, and I will tell you the whole commandment and the statutes and the rules that you shall teach them, that they may do them in the land that I am giving them to possess.’

You shall be careful therefore to do as the LORD your God has commanded you. You shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.

You shall walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, that you may live, and that it may go well with you, and that you may live long in the land that you shall possess.

Now this is the commandment—the statutes and the rules—that the LORD your God commanded me to teach you, that you may do them. (Deut 5:29-6:1)

Obviously, the Hebrew word for command is an essential part of the Old Testament. What Noble’s Bible teacher may have been referring to was that the Torah didn’t formally label the list as the Ten Commandments, instead presenting them as ten sayings. Even so, a saying can be a commandment without having to be labeled as such. And we see in Deut 5 that God Himself called them commandments. Noble and his teacher are both very wrong.

A quick Google search would have torpedoed Noble's sermon

A quick Google search would have torpedoed Noble’s sermon

(For a man who has assumed the responsibility of pastoring around 40,000 people, why couldn’t he have spent just a few minutes consulting a concordance, calling someone who does know Hebrew, or even Googling it? Even Google knows Noble’s claim is incorrect.)

From the New Testament, we see that Jesus understood them as commandments in his response to the rich young man in Matthew 19.

“If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

For Jesus, commandments referred to the list we know as the Ten Commandments (even though he abbreviated the list here).

Right away, we have a problem with Jesus’ advice if we are to take Noble’s teaching seriously. Noble says that being a Christian doesn’t require obedience, yet Jesus insists on it. The point of Jesus’ exchange with the rich young man was that it was impossible for anyone to actually keep the commandments. The disciples see the problem, to their horror.

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

To be saved we must obey the Ten Commandments, but we can’t, so it’s impossible for us to be saved by anything we do. The only way to salvation is though the Mediator that God graciously provides for us and whose perfect obedience he credits to us. This is the gospel of grace and the wonder of Christ.

If the commandments don’t even need to be obeyed, there’s nothing to be saved from and no need for the Mediator. All we need to do, in Noble’s formulation, is to say yes to Jesus, something that even this rich young man couldn’t do.

Noble is denying the gospel, not preaching it.

Noble rewrites the Commandments

Noble compounds his error by arbitrarily rewriting what’s left of the commandments to make them palatable for nonbelievers, even though he’s told us that they’re legally irrelevant. Noble presents his version by starting with the original biblical commandment, then wiping it off the screen and replacing it with his own version. God’s commands appeared on Noble’s big screen for 4 minutes and 12 seconds, but Noble’s commandments got 20:41 of screen time. Here’s what Noble wishes the commandments could be:

1) You shall have no other gods before me becomes You do not have to live in constant disappointment anymore.

Noble intimates that the command is selfish and unreasonable. (Check his body language at 35:36 on the video as he wags his finger, as if angry and demanding.) This sets the tone for the rest of Noble’s revision in which commandments that are focused on God and others become favors focused on us. God exists to make us happy.

2) You shall not make an image becomes You can be free from rituals and religion and trust in a relationship.

Noble talks about people who think incorrectly that their good religious works like church attendance and Bible reading will save them. That point is correct, but by rejecting the concept of the law in the first place, Noble has created a system where good works aren’t even necessary. If there’s no offense against God through breaking his law, there’s no need for reconciliation and no need for the Savior. In Noble’s universe, there’d be no Jesus for anyone to say yes to.

3) You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain becomes You can trust in a name that’s above every name.

Noble complains that Christians have butchered the commandment by prohibiting people from saying darn, a point illustrated with a story about being freaked out by a witch mannequin at a party store. Such is biblical exposition at NewSpring.

4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy becomes You can rest.

This is another one that Noble claims that Christians have butchered, thinking that God would kill them for doing yard work on Sunday. Given that Noble had already cancelled church for the following Sunday, it was important for him to ignore the clear meaning of this one. Sabbath breakers prefer not to preach too much about this commandment. Moving on…

5) Honor your father and mother becomes Your family does not have to fall apart.

He complains that parents use this as a “spiritual grenade” by teaching their children that the Bible tells them to honor and obey their children. This is improper, says Noble, because there’s no Hebrew word for command.

Like the Sabbath commandment, this is another awkward one for NewSpring, which often encourages its youth to reject parental authority in favor of NewSpring’s programs and teachings. Common in these parts are stories of families being torn apart by children and young adults who break from their Christian parents in favor of NewSpring, or leave college against their parents’ wishes to attend NewSpring College. NewSpring leaders know that big family events like Christmas often precipitate family conflict over NewSpring, so they prepare young people with articles like this one published in early December entitled My Family Thinks I Belong To A Cult. If young people don’t have to honor their parents, they can’t be talked out of their cults.

6) You shall not murder becomes You do not have to live in a constant state of anger because you will be motivated by love and not hate.

Noble uses this as yet another opportunity to beat up on other Christians.

I think one of the things that bothers me most about Christians is how hateful we seem to come across sometimes. I mean, we’re just mean. And we tend to be mean at people that are very different from us. Theologically, if you don’t agree just like me, I’m going to be mean to you. Moralistically, if you don’t agree with me then I’m going to be mean to you. But then, as we read about the person of Jesus, he just wasn’t mean to very many people (except the Pharisees–called then sons of hell), but to other people, he’s just this loving guy.

Yet again, Noble ignores the sin problem that requires the gospel. God hates sin, and because we were sinners, God hated us. (Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.) Because God’s hate is righteous, it’s holy and good, unlike ours. As we saw earlier, Jesus proclaimed the need to obey God’s law, which is impossible to do perfectly, making us lawbreakers and enemies of God. The good news is that, for those God gave to him, Jesus mediates between us and God with his perfect obedience, meaning that we meet God as our adoptive father rather than as an avenging judge.

Without an understanding of God’s terrifying hate, his love is meaningless.

7) You shall not commit adultery becomes You do not have to live a life dominated by the guilt, pain and shame associated with sexual sin.

Perhaps Noble could tell us what now constitutes sexual sin if there are no commandments regulating sexual behavior. From whence comes the guilt and shame if there is no law forbidding anything? By Noble’s logic, you’re free to commit adultery (whatever that is now) so that you can experience the blessing of having your shame removed.

Noble proudly claims that, unlike most other preachers, he likes to talk about sex and thinks that it’s good so long as it’s in the context of a heterosexual marriage. The problem is that by removing the law against sex outside of marriage, there’s nothing morally commendable or God pleasing about marital sex. Noble promises God’s forgiveness for sexual sin, but there’s no need for forgiveness if there have been no laws broken. By revoking the law, Noble erases the blessing.

8) You shall not steal becomes I will provide.

Noble prefaces this by saying that he actually thinks this is a good command (God must be relieved), but it makes a better promise. Noble assures us that God provides for his children, though his examples limit God’s provision to material benefits. His interpretation of God’s paternal care being linked to American commercialism would surprise believers in other parts of the world and other eras.

9) You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor becomes You do not have to pretend.

Contrary to what you understand from a plain reading of Scripture, this is not intended to benefit your neighbor; it’s really designed for your emotional self indulgence. It’s hermeneutical solipsism; the Bible’s all about me.

Cue another anti-Christian rant:

Church people are famous for pretending. Seriously. Every week in church it’s Halloween. People dress up in costumes, pretending to be someone that they’re really not. It’s a shackle that religion has held on people for far too long….When you know Jesus, you don’t have to pretend for a bunch of people who don’t know him anyway.

All those other non-NewSpring churches, in other words, are full of liars who aren’t actually Christians. (If NewSpringers ever wonder why parents worry that their kids have joined a cult, preaching like this is a clue.)

Noble doesn’t truly believe in removing his own masks and being fully transparent, however. As Chris Rosebrough was first to document, earlier in the sermon Noble accidentally used the N-word while recounting a conversation he’d had with a single friend about whether he should just buy himself a dog over his wife’s objections. Noble said, “I was like, ‘N*****, ca…'” at which point he stopped being honest and changed the topic. In the context of the moment, the word could be nothing else but what it sounded like, and it suggests that he regularly addresses someone in his life by that awful term.

Contrary to Noble’s hypocritical call to full transparency, some things ought to remain opaque. This side of heaven, we’re sinners with thoughts and desires that all-too-frequently violate all ten commandments. With the Holy Spirit’s sanctifying help, we work to make our fallen hearts fully subject to God’s moral law, but it is good for us and all of our neighbors that we keep most our internal ugliness just between ourselves and the Holy Spirit. The ability to do that is part of God’s common grace that holds societies together.

10) You shall not covet becomes I will be enough.

Noble starts by saying that the command against coveting donkeys, oxen or servants seems irrelevant, so he has to wrestle with this one. Now that he’s discovered that it’s not actually a command, he doesn’t have to worry about coveting donkeys any more.

If the true meaning of this command was that God was enough, God had already stated this in the preface to the Commandments when he reminded his people, “I am the Lord you God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.” This is not the same as the command that we must not covet.


Noble finishes the sermon by telling his audience that he has given them ten reasons to say yes to Christ, then leads them in a prayer that starts, “Jesus Christ, I know that I’m a sinner and I need your forgiveness. I believe you died on the cross and you rose from the grave to pay for my sin. I receive your payment.”

There was nothing in the sermon that supported any of the points in the prayer. How would Noble’s audience know they were sinners? Noble erased the law, so nobody in his audience ought to think of themselves as sinners. What laws have they broken that require forgiveness?

There’s nothing in the sermon to explain the need for Christ (besides him being someone that for some reason pleads for us to say yes to him), nor why he would need to die on a cross. Why was the resurrection important, especially when the cross seems unnecessary? What is Jesus paying for, and why is it me that’s receiving the payment? It’s backwards. God receives the payment because I cannot possibly pay. Jesus was sacrificed for me, not to me.

After the prayer, Noble tells those who prayed to sign a name tag to show that they have “nailed it down” with God. Hearing the gospel is a prerequisite to faith and repentance (Rom 10:14), yet nobody at NewSpring that night heard the gospel preached. Nevertheless, Noble confidently assured scores of people that they had just become right with God.

If it still actually mattered, to many of his hearers such a claim would have seriously violated the Ninth Commandment.

Update

NewSpring’s public relations director sent the following reply to a series of questions I had sent asking if Noble stood by his claim that there is no Hebrew word for command, if he still thinks God told him to deliver the message, if he had said the N-word in the sermon, and if he ever used it with other people.

We do stand by the message Perry gave to our church on December 24, 2015, and we do believe the Lord prompted Perry to deliver it as he did.

In regards to your question about the ‘N’ word, Perry doesn’t use that word and doesn’t address anyone in his life by such a word.  He did not use that word in his message and what you perceived as him doing so was [a] matter of words getting jumbled as can happen with anyone who is speaking.

356 thoughts on “Noble rescinds the Ten Commandments for 2015

  1. smitty Jan 5, 2015 1:12 pm

    all of you should just stop. Most dont take the time to even WATCH the sermons (not just part or clips of it but the WHOLE thing).

    I have read many of Mr. Duncan’s posts regarding NS and his disagreements with them. I have also read his post about how NS staff/supporters stalked and attacked him. He backs this up with facts and evidence of everything that he says.

    With that said, Perry (and all of the NS’ers) have their opinion and James Duncan (and all of the people that support his side) have theirs.

    The real question about NS, and any other church for that matter, is what is God doing FOR PEOPLE THROUGH THE CHURCH. There is no way to really know exactly what God is doing in any indivduals life. It is between them and God. If people come to Christ through NS… GREAT! If people come to Christ sitting on the toilet reading a devotional… AWESOME! If people come to Christ at the smallest, oldest, most tradional church in the world… SWEET!

    The bottom line is, the experience of church, wherever you are is a matter of someone’s heart.

    I am sorry about the pain and hurt that NS has caused you, Mr. Duncan. I dont agree with any of what they did to you. But, dont try to devalue someones worship experience through these blogs.

    • Daniel G. Jan 5, 2015 2:36 pm

      smitty,

      With all due respect, your statements are full of nothing more than pie-in-the-sky logic.

      “all of you should just stop”. Stop what, exactly? I’m not real sure this is how you want to start a responding post. It doesn’t make much sense and tells us we’re not likely to get much sound thinking from you in the first place. You’re just being reactive and vague.

      “Most don’t take the time to even WATCH the sermons (not just part or clips of it but the WHOLE thing).” That’s just simply not true. You’re making an unsubstantiated presumption. I would agree with you that snippets of many pastors sermons could be taken out of context and falsely used against them, but most of us (Dr. Duncan included) have watched the entire Christmas Eve sermon and it doesn’t change the overall criticism. If you think we are taking things out of context, please explain.

      “With that said, Perry (and all of the NS’ers) have their opinion and James Duncan (and all of the people that support his side) have theirs.” So does that mean we should just let it be and pretend that both are right? We know they both can’t be right. So your solution is to pretend that they are? I don’t understand where you’re coming from on this point.

      “The real question about NS, and any other church for that matter, is what is God doing FOR PEOPLE THROUGH THE CHURCH.” I think you’re making an irrelevant point here. Yes, you could ask this about any church. You could also ask the same thing about the gathering of Muslims at a particular mosque. ‘What is God doing through this mosque?’ It doesn’t make the legitimacy of a particular institution valid or invalid just because you ask a question, unless are being rhetorical (and it seems like you might be).

      ” There is no way to really know exactly what God is doing in any individuals life.” That’s simply not true. How do you back up such an assertion? I know we live in a postmodern generation, but that’s no excuse for the church to proclaim a postmodern philosophy. Christians don’t live on islands unto themselves where they can’t ever be evaluated and can simply shirk accountability by claiming that certain things are ‘between them and God’.

      “The bottom line is, the experience of church, wherever you are is a matter of someone’s heart.” I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say here. This goes back to my Islamic analogy in that you could say this about any religion. Substance, fruit-bearing, and outward expressions of grace go out the window because, after all, it’s really only a ‘matter of someone’s heart’. Using that logic, you can’t criticize anything and everything thereby becomes legitimate. Does that not sound dangerous to you?

      “dont try to devalue someones worship experience through these blogs.” Wow, this is incredibly judgment (to use an expression may defenders to use). Shouldn’t “someone’s worship experience” be based on the truth and not error? Those are really your only two options. Sure it’s a “matter of the heart”, but it’s either based on eternal truth or it’s based on falsehood. In this case, Dr. Duncan is laying out the case that it is based on falsehood and everyone ought to be very concerned, particularly when Perry begins by saying that he got this message directly from God. That alone was enough for me to be concerned.

      Should Christians refrain from criticizing (and thereby legitimizing) Muslims’ worship experience because they don’t know the Muslims’ hearts? I mean, if we must know someone’s heart fist, we can’t criticize anything they do, even though we know it is in error. That’s the problem I have with of NS’s defenders on here. I understand that it is your church and it’s not natural to be defensive about it when you see criticize. But my question is, do any of you care about the truth? I have yet to see defenders really care about the truth. It’s about how much they love the church, how many great things it has done, how many people have been saved, etc. But never about how truth is valued and accountability for personal conduct is enforced. I know many people love the church. I know good brothers and sisters who love it. But I also know those who are in open sin that love it, too. What does that tell you? It tells me that, while NS gives a sense of community and purpose, it doesn’t necessarily instill the drive to pursue the requirements of the Christian life (i.e. sanctification, personal holiness, repentance of sin, not loving the world). I’m not saying that they don’t believe those things, only that they are secondary (even optional). What seems to matter most is getting people in the doors.

  2. Sara B Jan 5, 2015 2:05 pm

    I’m deeply concerned that a pastor would remove the requirement of the law from the miracle of salvation. After all, it’s the law we need saving from in the first place. We are absolutely required to follow God’s law perfectly…yet we fail daily. This is sin and it is inexcusable to God who is Holy and righteous beyond comprehension. The miracle is that when we receive salvation we are justified through the blood of Christ. Saying the law needn’t be followed says Christ didn’t need to die. Yikes.
    Reading this post, I was ready to be horrified but instead when I started reading the 10 commandments as God’s promises I felt encouraged. AFTER you have Christ, God’s commands do become promises. Christians have the ability to sin or not sin. We are free to follow God’s law, fail, repent, and try again. It’s true that God is enough and He provides. It’s true that we can rest and our families don’t have to fall apart. It’s true that we can live in the hope that we will spend eternity in heaven and there won’t be any more sin. I wasn’t at the service so I don’t know anything about the context of the message. I can’t comment on what Perry says or what he means. This is just what I think about God’s law containing promises.

  3. Jim Porter Jan 5, 2015 4:39 pm

    The New Spring member who asked us to visit the church one time is asking a whole lot.

    In her book, Six Years With God: Life Inside Rev. Jim Jones’ People’s Temple, Jeannie Mills (nee Deanna Gustafson Mertle) describes how she and her family were sucked into the suicide-cult by a simple visit to the services. People from the Temple greeted them on the sidewalk with expansive statements about Jim Jones. The emphasis was on Jones, not God. Even Jeannie’s husband, Al, who was not a believer, noted that the members should be giving credit to the Lord. But he did nothing about it at the time.

    Eventually, the Mills joined the Temple. And although they were appalled when Jones would do such things as curse from the pulpit, speak disgustingly of sex, invite both men AND women to have sex with him so he could help them work out their sexual problems, and THROW THE SCRIPTURES ACROSS THE ROOM, CURSING THE BIBLE, the Mills did nothing at the time about extracting themselves from under the leadership of a domineering, sick, sin-possessed cultist named Jim Jones.

    The people of People’s Temple honestly believed that Jones could do anything they asked. Members would write him letter requesting favors. One woman wrote him to ask that he contact her bank and stop the impending foreclosure of her house. (Mills did not say whether or not Jones actually did this.)

    Through their time in the People’s Temple, the Mills continued to watch in horror as this cult turned from the place they admired to an institution fraught with evil.

    Then Jones began to reach into the homes and families of the members. Students could attend college on the Temple, but they had to live in the Temple housing where they were subjected to sleep deprivation and the same kind of the spiritual stress imposed on their families at home.

    Finally, one of the Mills’ children was called before the so-called church and beaten 70 times. The Mills left. The People’s Temple legal staff (attorneys who were members of the Temple who did pro bono work for Jones and his corporation) threatened them in a number of ways including the threat to reveal the confession letters that the Mills, as were all of the members, were required to write and sign. In these letters, the members confessed to their sins, wrong doings, crimes, and other matters.

    It was after the Mills were able to extract themselves from the clutches of Jones and his Temple that the entire organization moved to Jonestown, where the subsequent mass suicide occurred. Jeannie Mills described how they were horrified as news accounts of people and children they knew and loved were forced to take the poison that was formulated by the church’s doctor and medical staff. (The doctor was one of those kids who had lived in the Temple’s housing while in college and subjected to the sleep deprivation and spiritual stress.) One child, Jeannie said, fought and fought to avoid the poison but eventually the child was overcome.

    After the suicide, Mills, her husband, and one of their daughters were murdered. Someone unknown shot them to death with a shotgun. Their son was eventually arrested for the crime, but the local prosecutors did not believe there was enough evidence to try him on the charge. The son eventually moved his family and himself to Japan.

    So all of this horror started with one visit to People’s Temple. It only took that one visit for Satan to get his hooks into the Mills family.

    As to the people of New Spring, we can see that they are up to the point where the pastor is condemning the Bible–the Word of God.

    I pray that nothing bad happens to the people who are apparently, to me, trapped in the New Spring cult, as the Mills were trapped in the People’s Temple.

    My opinion is that no one should make that one visit to New Spring.

  4. Lou M Jan 5, 2015 5:02 pm

    People believed everything Jim Jones said, too, didn’t they?

  5. Tony V. Lewis Jan 5, 2015 5:04 pm

    I attended New Spring for the second time on Jan. 3, 2015 and was witness to exactly what Perry Noble said in ref. to using the N word! First he said he absolutely did not say it. He stated that it might have sounded like the N word but was not! Liar! Then he said but if I did say it I apologize to anyone it hurt! Well Pastor, Did you say it or not”? Simple to find out! Watch the trailer video and decide for yourself!! The first time I went to NS church was Easter sunday many years ago and the first thing they did was play “Highway to Hell” by ACDC. Not very Christ like but I did stay to hear the sermon and decided to stay away! I believe in attracting young people to Christ by various music but not that song..Way over the top! After 7 or 8 years I decided to give it a second chance and what do I find but the pastor standing on the stage and lying straight up to his entire congregation!
    Perry, everyone makes mistakes and I’m sure you didn’t mean anything harmful by saying the N word the way you were using it in that context but why not just say that and be done with it! I also heard Perry say “people don’t like me cause I use words like Piss you off, freaking, sucks, etc..I was totally blown away to hear a pastor stand up and say that to a church filled with his people! What are you thinking about! You above all others are supposed to set the example for all people not say its ok to use that language!! I’m not even going to comment on the 10 commandants except that Perry said “we all know they are promises that we get when we accept Christ”! I looked at my wife thinking she would want to get up and leave right then, but we stayed to hear him out and that is when he started his apology for not using the N word, or whatever it was he was doing..Not sure it was an apology! I will not be returning to NS but i do pray that Perry Noble will find his path and stop leading young minds(and old) down a path to Hell! BTW anyone confused by all this..Start reading your own bible daily and Christ will reveal the truth to you and you will not need to be confused by Perry Noble’s of the world!

  6. Phil Jan 5, 2015 5:16 pm

    You people are whack-o-la! You’ll believe everything you read on the internet? An author with no name. LOL! You guys need to get a life. Good Lord. So call Christians attacking Christians. Ya’ll are a fine example of what ignorant people do. NewSprings rocks and you should come and see why, instead of attacking what you DO NOT KNOW. Maybe it will get the Devil out of your heart.

    • Jenn Jan 5, 2015 9:11 pm

      An author with no name? Did you click on the big link at the top that says “About Me”? There’s quite a bit there about the author. In fact, if you click on “Our Story,” you’ll see the author has spent quite a lot of time around NewSpring and Perry. Also, I’ve been to NewSpring.

    • David Rhee Jan 6, 2015 8:58 pm

      Though God could change a man’s heart from a slave of sin into a slave of righteousness by His sovereignty, many people seem to miss the point (like yourself)… Just because you speak Jesus and talk about salvation, it does not necessarily mean you are a Christian… .Just because Newspring calls itself a church does not necessarily equate that it is Christian church…

      For example Muslim talks about Jesus (the wrong Jesus).. Does that mean they are talking about the same Jesus in the Bible? No (from my point)… They talk about Jesus as a man… Not God… So what is the point of my argument.. THEOLOGY MATTERS…

      What Perry “preaches” would not even be considered a Christian sermon because he does not rightly handle the Word of God.. Rather, he uses subjective post-modern “arguments” to change the narrative that is not from the Christian orthodoxy that our early churches did follow and have proven to sound and true.. So if you have a wrong theology, does that make you a Christian? No…

      I do not see this as Christians attacking Christians.. For one, trying to show errors does not equate attacking.. It is like you telling me 7 x 7 = 50 is true and I point out that you are wrong does not equate attacking… Second, I don’t necessarily see the situation as both are necessarily Christians because one do not follow the Christian orthodoxy… Hence, a different theology.. A different gospel (as Paul would state)… So if you like to know where I see Perry. He is not a Christian.. He does not repent of his sins… He does not confess that he taught false doctrines..

      Again, most people are addressing the very actions and “fruits” that Perry has consistently shown and is in total contradiction to the Word of God… That is the issue..

  7. John M Jan 5, 2015 6:15 pm

    Anyone who attempts to makes the commandments to say what they think it means has made self a god of their own making. No different than the golden calf made in the wilderness by the Israelites. No born again believer will believe this king of nonsense. The congregation has to be brainwashed and totally deceived to accept this false doctrine.

  8. John M Jan 5, 2015 7:10 pm

    Anyone who attempts to make the COMMANDMENTS to say what they think it says, sets self up as a god of their own making. His congregation see him as their god if they defy the truth and accept this kind of garbage. No true born again believer would sit under this kind of warp thinking. Normally I try not to say thing that seem so crude, but in this case I will make an exception.

  9. Stephen Jan 5, 2015 8:29 pm

    Phil,

    NewSpring rocks, eh? You could at least give a hat tip to Jesus.

  10. Lucas Hoffmann Jan 5, 2015 8:34 pm

    If attendance at Newspring is necessary for a critical review of it’s services, why are they posted online?

    Entire sermons are available to the public, yet Noble’s supporters assume we can’t right know what he was saying unless we were there in person.

  11. Sharon Horne Jan 5, 2015 8:36 pm

    I have never been one to judge other churches. Neither have I ever heard or seen anything like the preaching Perry Noble does. I think he is the most grandiose or maybe even psychotic (losing touch with reality) human being in this world. I seriously believe he needs professional help.
    The members of New Springs church are being victims of his mental illness.
    The bible says that we need to be careful who we listen to. These teachings at New Springs are nothing short of false doctrine. I pray for all of you who listens to and lives the way Noble teaches, will have the truth of Jesus Christ revealed to you before he takes a whole congregation to hell with him. God Bless all of you.

  12. Matt Jan 5, 2015 8:44 pm

    My question to the people that disagree with all of Newspring’s sermons and don’t like what Newspring is doing is: If you dislike Newspring so much, why do you keep watching the sermons? If it’s so evil why even bother? I disagree with CNN, so guess what…. I don’t watch it! Common sense people. You’re just all trying to stir up drama, especially you Mr. Duncan. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. Simple as that!

    • Humblylearning Jan 5, 2015 10:09 pm

      As I’ve assessed the comments in both posts, it would seem it wouldn’t matter if it was Newspring Church, Newfall Church, Old Winter Baptist Church, or whatever church. If one as a follower of Christ sees an influence in society falsely representing the faith, distorting what they live for which is God’s Word and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then there would be a desire to combat it, no matter who or what church it was. It perhaps was what Paul was feeling when he heard of people distorting the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Galatia.

    • Stephen Jan 5, 2015 10:16 pm

      Ah, yes. We’re all just trying to stir up drama. Matt, you’d do yourself well to read the book of Jude and 2 Timothy 4. When someone perverts the faith, no Christian should be silent.

      Matthew Henry’s commentary on 2 Timothy 4:

      People will turn away from the truth, they will grow weary of the plain gospel of Christ, they will be greedy of fables, and take pleasure in them. People do so when they will not endure that preaching which is searching, plain, and to the purpose. Those who love souls must be ever watchful, must venture and bear all the painful effects of their faithfulness, and take all opportunities of making known the pure gospel.

    • not confused Jan 8, 2015 12:54 pm

      Good question Matt…the answer is (aside from all the discussion about interpretation of the bible):
      1) We are concerned about good friends who are attending and giving their money and could potentially be hurt.
      2) We are tired of the constant in your face, I love my church, as if all of the rest of us are going to churches or synagogues or mosques etc that are not worth “loving” and the observation that the “church” and all related icons (newspring brand) seem to have become more important than God or the message.
      3) We are appalled at the level of commercialism (prizes, stickers, free food, promotion of starbucks, sale of books) and non-accountability for funds taken in by the church (including level of apparent charity by this church – most money goes to salary and church building)
      4) We are angry about the recruitment tactics…asking kids in school to ask their friends, even nagging them constantly or encouraging kids to end friendships if their friends won’t attend. This issue has probably been the most significant in causing us to try to learn more about what is going on.
      5) The fact that we have to be fearful about saying anything negative about Newspring in public because that could cause an end to a friendship, business relationship or attack on our family.
      6) Statements by PN attacking churches that have been part of the community and attended by families for years.

      But you are right, none of us have to watch the video…and 99.99% of the time we don’t. I plan to make that 100% of the time.

  13. Old springer Jan 6, 2015 1:47 am

    I think it’s ironic he can use a word that if said at a low level job would more than likely get you packed and ready to leave the office immediately. He leads tens of thousands of people a week, makes an undisclosed amount of money, and if the smallest amount of (valid) critism is brought up people are just fundamental bigots.

  14. Ameslynn Jan 6, 2015 3:07 am

    First, Google is a search engine that will also give you websites for misguided searches. Don’t believe me…how many times have you not found what you truly searched for on Google?!!
    Perry used authentic Hebrew Christians to verify this translation (but you all will jump to conclusions regardless!) And remember, Jesus didn’t stand around saying, “you vile person, you disobeyed the Commandments!” As this site is trying so badly to do to Noble.
    Noble’s approaching it from the side in which it was written…in Hebrew. He doesn’t say the commandments aren’t as God wrote them, he’s merely saying that in the Hebrew language the word translation is along the lines of “these are the promises God gives us when we commit our faith to Him!” In other words, if your faith is in Christ, God promises you that these ten things will not be an issue. Which is completely valid! If your faith is where it belongs in Christ, murder, adultery, love for possessions, and etc aren’t going to be a problem because your heart is where it belongs…in Christ. Which is totally true!! If your heart doesn’t wholly belong to God…adultery, dishonesty, love for material things and etc WILL be an issue. That’s his approach. He’s not claiming the commandments invalid as written…he’s merely approaching them from the original language they were written in since Hebrew doesn’t have literal translations into English. As all languages are…literal translations aren’t always available.
    And from a sinner’s POV, throwing finger pointed “Don’t’s” is one reason sinners stay sinners. But when a sinner can see the promises in a way the God intended His children to feel, welcome and loved, then that’s when we know God truly loves us. We won’t have to worry about death because Christ brings us new life and new promises once we place our faith in Him.
    You don’t have to accept Noble’s sermon, but lashing out as this site does…Christianity is not your priority!

    • Linda Jan 6, 2015 10:34 am

      Ameslynn: Very well put. Thank you!

    • MB Jan 6, 2015 10:51 am

      Ameslynn:

      “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgement.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgement; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.” – Matthew 5:21-23

      That’s Jesus speaking. He takes Decalogue (10 Commandments) and doubles-down on them. Clearly, Jesus doesn’t believe that telling sinners they are sinners causes them to stay sinners, but instead knows that exposing their sinfulness leads them to His grace.

      This is the problem with what Perry did. We don’t come to Jesus for the promises we get (Hebrews 11:36-38 goes on to show that life may actually get worse for us when we come to Christ), we come to Jesus because we understand that we need Jesus and because we get Jesus for himself not just the stuff He might provide.

  15. Ray Jan 6, 2015 11:16 am

    The scriptures tell us that if we answer a fool in his folly we have become like him. Noble Perry is a fool and will continue to stay as one. A pig does not deserve pearls of wisdom. Let him continue in his folly and then it will happen he will meet Yahweh face to face and then…poof!

  16. David Stoddard Jan 6, 2015 11:44 am

    Knobel’s assertion that the 10 commandments are more like promises than commands may be less heretical than it sounds. The Reverend Ruth L. Miller, Ph.D says this same thing. see,, see also, Dr. Miller doesn’t base this on there being no Hebrew word for commandment. Rather, she says that there is no imperative verb form. see for a definition of the imperative mood. Thus, the “Thou shalt” preceding each “command” or “promise”(depending on how you look at it)is perhaps not a precise translation as this imperative verb form doesn’t exist in Hebrew. Thus, according Dr. Miller, “Thou shall not kill” could be translated “you do not kill”. It sounds to me, a layperson, not a bible scholar,that this translation is essentially saying, if you are of God (or a Christian), this is who you are, someone who has no other gods, who doesn’t kill, covet, lie, commit adultery, etc. This could also be considered a promise, that this is who you become through God’s grace.

    This is close to what Knoble was saying in his sermon (which I viewed online). I certainly did not understand him to say that since these are not commandments, it is OK break them. He essentially says, if you accept Christ and abide in Christ, you will follow these “commands” or “promises” because this is who you are, they are a part of you.
    I did think he perhaps got little too cute in re-wording them and going so far as admitting that he actually approves of some of them (I think it was killing and stealing that he said he actually likes, which could suggest he doesn’t really like others). This could give the impression that, whether we view them as promises or as commandments, they really don’t mean what they say. I do believe he probably only meant for his rewritten promises to reflect a positive affect resulting from following each “commandant”, or from receiving the the gift of each “promise”. Put another way, these commands or promises are not a burden, but a gift.

  17. Downing Jan 6, 2015 12:55 pm

    You may want to Google “Ruth L. Miller” before using her as a source for Orthodoxy.

  18. David Jan 6, 2015 2:35 pm

    Downing, I may not have been clear. I did not mean to put the “commandments as promises” concept out there as orthodoxy. I simply made the humble assertion that it may be less heretical that it seems. My citation of Dr. Miller was not based on her credentials, but was really based on her interesting description of how verbs are used in the Hebrew language. I found other sources for the concept that in Hebrew the commandments are more like sayings or promises, all of which might be written by kooks. To me, whether one calls them promises, sayings, or commandments, God spoke them and they are to be observed and followed.

    I’m curious, what do you say about the assertion that the Hebrew language of the time did not have verbs in the imperative mood? If that is correct, perhaps these are not just commands, but a description of what we are to become, people who do not kill, lie, covet, etc., not just because it is commanded, but it is just something we are compelled to do (or not do) like breathing. Literally “You don’t kill.”

    I use the NASV, and have an Exhaustive Concordance that I occasionally use to look up the Hebrew or Greek meaning of certain words in scripture to try to better understand. In my NASV Bible, the commands in Ex. 20 are preceded by thou “Shall”. I looked up “Shall” to see what Hebrew word this comes from and its meaning. My Concordance is supposed to have every word that appears in the NASV. “Shall” is not there.I don’t know if this means anything, but I have been using this Concordance since about 1982 and this is the first time I’ve looked up a word that is in my NASV which is is not in the Exhaustive Concordance.

    One other thing, to be clear. Whether these are 10 sayings, promises, or commands, none of us are able to do them all of the time, which is why we need forgiveness.

  19. Libby Jan 6, 2015 3:31 pm

    pray for Perry, he needs Godly mentor ‘s and all in the ministry need ongoing education and study
    Billy Grahm is an excellent example of a mans in leadership with wisdom and wise counsel .

  20. Downing Jan 6, 2015 3:59 pm

    Ruth Miller is a Unitarian Universalist. Her opinion on the Scriptures don’t weigh into my understanding at all.
    I am not a Hebrew Scholar. I have been to seminary, so I know some. You know who is a Hebrew Scholar? Everyone on the translation committee for all the major Old Testament translations. This is where a Hebrew concordance comes in handy, because you can see the Hebrew word being translated, how many times it was used in the Old Testament, and the various ways that translated. In each translation, the Commandments are translated as a negative command: Thoe shalt not, shall not, Do not…etc. NONE – ZERO – of the major translations interpret those commands in the positive as promises. http://www.lockman.org/nasb/nasbprin.php That link is the committee of about 60 scholars who worked on your favorite translation, the NASB. Are you really willing to take the word of Perry Noble (who doesn’t know any Hebrew) or Ruth Miller (who may or may not know Hebrew. Her degree is not in Hebrew) over that list of Bible Scholars? Their translation is accurate. You can trust it. Miswah (transliteration) is interpreted as “Command” or some related ter (commands, commandment, etc) about 180 times. It is interpreted as something like “Promise” exactly zero times. Perry and Miller are wrong in this case. Very wrong. The translators of your bible are correct.

  21. Kayla D Jan 6, 2015 4:46 pm

    I actually think this is a really interesting sermon. I think if you look at it objectively you can see that he is not changing the commandments at all. (Although I do think it is ignorant of him to say there is no Hebrew word for commandment or command because I researched it and in less than 5 minutes discovered otherwise). He is basically asking you to look at the ten commandments as promises from God and the benefits we receive when we follow them (by grace not by works). I think this is actually a very inspiring word of God if you can look past him making some offensive comments and giving false information about the Hebrew word for command/commandment.

  22. Amber C Jan 6, 2015 9:42 pm

    Why are we participating in this “argument”? Is it productive? Is it kind? Does it lead people to Jesus? Does it just show Non-Christians how petty Christians can be? I have my own views on the sermon, but I’ll skip it. As cliché as it is, we can not claim to know how our Lord operates. I can definitely say this, after watching the sermon I dove into my bible looking for answers to many questions I had. Is that a bad thing? I think not. Each and every one of us has a responsibility to seek him daily and not rely on pastors and teachers as our only source of knowledge.
    It’s time to set it aside and help one another.

  23. chris weaver Jan 6, 2015 10:08 pm

    Take a look at the number of people saved by the this church.I dont believe God would allow such blessings on a church who was doing so wrong.Take the time you spent on this attack of character an spend it doing what you should an you to may see such blessings one day!

  24. HealedByHisWounds Jan 6, 2015 11:17 pm

    Praying for Perry. This is my old church. We left after we continue to see Perry drift from what is pure gospel. I pray the church will wake up! A church that has a pastor with no real accountability is dangerous. A church that will not listen to wise rebuke is dangerous. Jesus, please help NS. Love you NS.

  25. Stephen Jan 7, 2015 1:12 am

    Chris Weaver,

    Your logic falls short, but I don’t think you’d understand.

  26. Pingback: WARNING YOU WITH TEARS WEDNESDAY | Living4HisGlory's Blog

  27. Joey C Jan 7, 2015 8:49 am

    I have read over several of your comments. You seem to be so concerned that Perry said the N word. Well first off the N word you try to make it out to be is not the same one that causes a lot of peoblems. If he did say it i believe he was saying “nigga” not the other N word. If you took offense to that then i think you have your own problems. Whites, blacks, asians and mexicans all use the word the same. Its like saying my homie or my brother. For that matter i believe in church we refer to one another as brother Joey or brother Perry. Well if you want to make it a racist comment then black people are called “brothas”. So really i think you are making this into a lot more than him possibly saying it. I believe you have nothing better to do than bash a man who wants to bring all types of people together no matter of race or gender. Are you going to judge me for having tattoos? Does that make me fall into a category of people that cant believe and follow Christ. He is a man who admits his flaws and lives a everyday life just as the rest of his congregation. Where every word and every thought is not perfect. I heard a pastor on tv that spoke on oral sex. Matter of fact he worded just like a pervert would in the real word. Did you bash him?

  28. Pingback: Round-up: responses to Perry Noble on the Ten Commandments | discern.org

  29. Kelly Jan 7, 2015 10:18 am

    How do you not see that he is encouraging people? Even if he acknowledged them as commands he is helping to reveal some key things. Instead of viewing the commands of things a Christian shouldn’t do he is saying that there is freedom. Instead of not murdering, in Christ you can find joy that will cause you to stray away from that anger. How does that not make sense? Yeah some things he says tend to be a stretch but you have to look at the heart behind it.

  30. Pingback: Perry Noble: What to Do? | politics, law, religion and other rambling commentary

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