Noble vs. Noble 12

It turns out that I’m not the only one who often disagrees with Perry Noble. Count the contradictions from yesterday’s post.

One:

Does it bother anyone besides me that churches actually schedule revivals?

I promise you on Easter Sunday and for the three weeks that follow we are going to go all out as a church to provide a place where you can bring the people that matter to you the most so that they can hear about Jesus!

Two:

The church in America believes that a move of God can be reduced to a formula.

From the start we were dogmatic about the vision God had given us. [snip] We were dedicated to keeping the vision simple.

Three:

We didn’t have “pack a pew Sunday.”

DON’T MISS NEXT SUNDAY…and do whatever it takes to bring someone

When your shtick is criticizing other churches and then you act just like those imaginary churches, moments like this are bound to happen.

12 thoughts on “Noble vs. Noble

  1. Joey W Apr 23, 2009 7:55 am

    I go to NS (about 9 months now), and you’ve brought interesting things to my attention.

    Perry has no clue. I’m not sure he slows down long enough to think through what he’s saying. He’s a great guy, but now I’m rethinking things.

    Great post. Great blog.

    I guess there’s more stuff I need to watch out for.

  2. Simply Amazed Apr 23, 2009 9:56 am

    JDuncan, I am amazed at how much time you have on your hands. Do you work? Wait, I think you are employed by the university that helped NS get started. Isn’t that interesting? Do they pay you? They might want to think about that because it seems like you spend a great deal of time here on your blog. Does the leadership know that you do nothing but criticize NS and PNoble?

    What amazes me even more is that you could use your site (which obviously is viewed by many) to reach out to others and enlarge the Kingdom of Heaven, but instead you prefer to bash a man who is no-doubt in love with Jesus. Different churches have different methods, but as long as NS is reaching others for Christ, I just don’t understand why you feel the need to speak poorly about one of God’s churches, a.k.a. His bride, and those who have been called to lead it.

    God has done amazing things at NS – have you been there to see how many people have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior in the last few weeks/months? There’s only one way to explain how this is happening – God is completely in control. Like many others have said here on your site, if God doesn’t want NS to continue, then He will shut it down. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but JDuncan, you need to get a life. It almost seems like you have made it your life’s mission to attempt to destroy NS and PNoble. Well, like I said, God is completely in control of everything that takes place at NS. And He is doing incredible things there. You may not agree with it, but your opinion does not matter.

    Maybe you should talk to some of the people/families/friends who have given their life to Christ because of something they heard/saw at NS. They are now God’s children! Do you know how happy that makes God? Well, I’ve wasted enough of my time on your blog. I wish you nothing but the best. May God’s will be done in your life.

    • James Duncan Apr 23, 2009 7:34 pm

      Simply Amazed, I’m sorry to have kept you waiting so long for a reply. I was busy at work and then had to run a few family errands this evening. You know, life stuff. I hope I didn’t waste too much of your time. I see Albert and Sara have kept you entertained in my absence.

      I’m happy to see that you acquainted yourself with my little disclaimer before you wrote. I especially appreciate your pithy be-quiet-and-go-away argument. I’ve often found it to be very effective, especially when you’re an anonymous guest in someone else’s forum. You should remember to use it again.

      I’m not sure what to do about your complaint about criticizing Perry, given that he wrote 80% of the post. If ‘one, two, three’ is too harsh, I shall henceforth endeavor to count online only in French.

      Might I suggest you listen to the advice of your pastor, who prefers not to read blogs like this? Says PN, “I used to search & see what other bloggers were saying about me…but I don’t do that anymore–and neither should you! It robs your joy!!!” The Interweb really is a dangerous place where you might encounter unapproved thoughts at any moment. You really should stay away.

      Seriously, if you want to preserve your joy, you should read only NS-approved blogs (if you don’t mind a bit of profanity now and then).

  3. Albert Apr 23, 2009 12:32 pm

    I must say that the “look at how many people are saved at newspring” argument is getting old.

    Yes, people may be coming to Christ, but it is not the work of Newspring, Perry Noble, the leadership, the youth group, the members, or any other human factor associated with or not associated with the church. It is solely an act of God working in the lives of people. When Newspringers use this “how many people have you saved lately, Duncan?” response, I immediately tune them out. Not that your response is directly along these lines, but it is dangerously close.

    The fact that Noble and the rest of the church is encouraging people to “Do whatever it takes to bring someone” implies that they believe that by bringing someone to newspring, the church and the people have some part to play in the salvation of that person.

    That just isn’t true, so I would encourage every member not to use the fact that people come to Christ at newspring as an argument or measurement that the church is benefitting the body of Christ…

  4. Sara Grumbles Apr 23, 2009 2:07 pm

    @Simply Amazed:

    Wishing James Duncan “the best” rings phony after you have attacked him personally saying he has “no life” and is not doing his job. He is my professor and I can tell you that yes, he does do a lot and is quite dedicated to his students. Not that that has anything to do with his disagreements with Newspring.

    College campuses, and in particularly college professors, are known for openly expressing their opinions. Just because James Duncan dislikes Newspring’s methods and Newspring just so happens to be popular doesn’t mean that the leadership at Anderson University should shut him down or fire him, which is what I think you are implying.

    Your pastor spends a lot of time attacking other churches on his blog and from his pulpit. Would you advise him to “get a life” as well?

    And why do you assume that just because James Duncan isn’t lavishing praise on Newspring that he is not doing some good?

    As Albert said, your arguments are stale.

    And let me get one thing straight: You said that James Duncan’s opinion “does not matter.” Why? Because his is a dissenting one? Why do I get the feeling that if JDuncan were praising Newspring, his opinion would be valued and applauded. You sound arrogant and unreasonable.

    And while you were busy “wasting your time” reading this blog, maybe you could have typed your real name? At least JDuncan attaches his name to his opinions. But I guess that doesn’t mean much to you considering you reject opinions that don’t match your own.

  5. Rob Apr 23, 2009 5:41 pm

    @Albert

    You’re right that the Holy Spirit is necessary. Only God can change hearts, but he does it through the preaching, teaching, reading of his Word. God’s Word is a necessary part of the process.

    Westminster Confession of Faith I:I
    http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/
    Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable;[1] yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation.[2] Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church;[3] and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing;[4] which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;[5] those former ways of God’s revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.[6]

    Mark 16:19-20
    After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

    You go too far when you criticize NS for asking people to bring friends to church. (btw, I’m not implying that corporate worship is the only place to hear the Word of God, but it definitively is one place.)

  6. Albert Apr 23, 2009 7:07 pm

    @ Rob

    I appreciate the excerpt from the Westminster Confession and the gospel reference.

    I may have been a bit unclear with my wording. I do not, by any means, think that corporate worship, hearing the word preached, or fellowship of the believers is unnecessary to an active Christian walk. I simply meant that it seemed to me that by publishing something that encourages members to “do whatever it takes” to get visitors to attend a service implied that they are trying to save sinners. (just before that statement, Mr. Noble declared that they had a goal of seeing 1,000 people saved).

    My response was actually directed toward “Simply Amazed” for using the typical “how many people have you led to Christ” response that most Newspring members use–not to minimize the importance of corporate worship or the part it plays in a Christian walk. I apologize for the poor wording…

  7. Simply Amazed Apr 24, 2009 4:48 am

    Thanks for all the comments directed toward my post. I, Sam Avery, think that’s awesome, and I appreciate the attention. My comments, JD, were not really based on what was written in this particular post, but toward your entire blog. Almost anytime anything is said or done by someone representing NS, it seems you like to critique it – as if that’s why you started your blog in the 1st place. I realize you might not care for NS but my goodness, do you dislike them THAT much?

    NS isn’t perfect (no one said it was)-besides, no church or human is perfect-Jesus Christ is the only one who was/is/will ever be perfect; God is the ONLY reason lives are being changed (and no, NS is not the only church where lives are being changed and no, their method is not the only way to do church but you can’t deny its effectiveness); and no individual person has ever tried to take the credit. Again, God is the only explanation for the hundreds/thousands of lives that have been changed over the last 10 years.

    Lastly, my joy has not been robbed, but thanks for looking out for me. Isn’t God’s love amazing! He changed my life, and I can’t wait to see what He does in the days/weeks/months/years ahead – whether lives are changed at NS or somewhere else and no matter what method He plans to use. Yey, God! Thanks for the platform to share how amazing God is. Peace!

  8. Tommy F. Apr 24, 2009 7:27 am

    @ “Simply Amazed”: You wrote: “you can’t deny its effectiveness….” They must play this mantra at the end of worship or something.

    This is the essential argument that all NS defenders make – since they have no other defense. No one (outside of BRink) tries to defend the substance of any of the arguments. I’m actually a bit surprised that BCoop has not returned to the blog to defend himself, but instead lets others do it for him.

    Mormons are very effective and successful in attracting converts, especially from Protestant denominations. Does this mean that God is the explanation?

    So, Simply, why don’t you ponder these two questions to nullify the criticisms and engage the issues, rather than be frustrated by the blog. Here are two softball questions … 1) should bamf be used to describe a place of worship? 2) Should Ace Noble spend time in his sermons attacking other churches?

    I have a prediction, Simply. You won’t.

  9. Anonymous Apr 24, 2009 10:39 am

    I would like to come in for Simply Amazed. When he said that “look at how many have given their lives to Christ” I believe what he is meaning is that it is evident the work of God is there. Noble seeks God more than anyone I know and so does the rest of the staff that is how lives are changed. Because he is obedient to God’s word and calling. However it is always the spirit of God moving. Not just the act of one man. I do not believe @SimplyAmazed was saying that Albert. He even says “God is completely in control” Check out the 3rd paragraph.

    Possibly when Perry says “do whatever you have to do to get someone here” that is exhibiting his excitement. He knows he has bathed his message in prayer, he knows the music that will be done and he is just waiting for God to move people. However “pack a pew Sunday” is referring to a once a year revival where they try to get God move. Perry says his quote about once a month. Its not a revival its the Gospel message.

  10. James Duncan Apr 24, 2009 3:36 pm

    PN was making fun of churches who schedule revivals. Anon, you say that PN schedules his revivals once a month. Wouldn’t that make Noble 12 times worse than his stereotyped pastors who only do it once a year?

  11. Harling Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm

    Simply amazed, you need to read other blogs by Dr. Duncan instead of singling out one. He gives New Spring plenty of credit for the things they do right, but has a problem with several of their techniques. The blog is about media, church, and politics. He is Dr. Duncan because of his degree in mass media. As a christian and a mass media professor in the local area he has every right to voice his opinions on New Spring or any other topic. You have that same right, so you can go start your own blog and debate whatever you wish.

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