On such foundations are cults built

Posted: July 13th, 2009 | Author: | Tags: , , | 9 Comments »

Perry Noble tells us not to question him; today, Steven Furtick tells us not to question his revelation.

A sampling of today’s dangerous wisdom:

Sometimes you’ll have an encounter with God that’s so intense you can’t reveal it to everyone in your life. …

Sometimes God plants a vision in your heart so outrageous that you need to keep it to yourself for a while. …

Sometimes you’ll feel out of place when you come down from the mountain after meeting with God.  It may take time for the people surrounding you to get adjusted to the new reality.  Sometimes you’ll have to cover your vision with a veil until what you’ve seen becomes clear to others too.  Don’t take it as an insult.  Don’t question the validity of your revelation. [Emphasis added]

Just thank God that your vision is too luminous for human eyes to behold.
It’s a sign of a very bright future.

Can someone tell me how these words would be out of place coming from a David Koresh or a Jim Jones?

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9 Comments on “On such foundations are cults built”

  1. 1 David J said on July 13th, 2009:

    This is dangerous and will lead to many grave errors. Hiding and deception are not the things of God. I really worry about Furtick.

    1 Timothy 4:6-10 (NASB)

    4:6 In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
    7 But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;
    8 for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
    9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.
    10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

    1 Timothy 6:3-16 (NASB)

    6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
    4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
    5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
    6 But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment.
    7 For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either.
    8 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content.
    9 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.
    10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
    11 But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.
    12 Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
    13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
    14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
    16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

    God does not give us visions that contradict His Word and requirements for Christin living. Both Perry and Steven should ponder this statement.

    Psalms 119:105 (NASB)

    119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.

    2 Timothy 2:15-17 (NASB)

    2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
    16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
    17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,

  2. 2 keitho said on July 14th, 2009:

    @ JDuncan,

    The fact is, these words would not be out of place.

    And as long as people who are a part of Furtick’s church (or NS, or any other assembly with a charismatic and compelling leader)can decide if these secret yet soon to be revealed visions are legitimate or not (based on scripture)then a balance still exists and the cult stage has not been reached. As your title suggest though, the foundation may be there, but not much else.

    However, when the leader starts to believe that rejecting his vision is the same as rejecting God, watch out.

  3. 3 David J said on July 14th, 2009:

    keitho said,”However, when the leader starts to believe that rejecting his vision is the same as rejecting God, watch out.”

    That’s my fear. What’s scary is Perry Noble is at the door steps of this statement. Earlier this year, Perry made a big deal to his staff about buying into NewSpring’s vision 100% and told them if they did not buy into his vision to resign. It’s on his blog… http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/07/08/what-if-i-have-people-on-staff-that-dont-like-the-church/ Tony Morgan also blogged and parroted Noble.

  4. 4 James Downing said on July 14th, 2009:

    http://www.stevenfurtick.com/motivation/they-can%e2%80%99t-stop-you/

    Keith, in the above post, Furtick uses Gamaliel’s advice to argue that those disagreeing with him, are actually disagreeing with God.

  5. 5 David J said on July 14th, 2009:

    “#5 – Can the issue be resolved? Vision can NEVER be compromised…so…if I had a staff member that hated the fact we were seeing people meet Jesus, thus causing the church to get larger…then I would have to go NSYNC on them!(”Bye Bye Bye!” NOW that song is in your head–thank you!) BUT…maybe, just maybe the staff member doesn’t have a problem with VISION…but rather the methods in which the vision is being carried out. If that is the case then it is possible for the issue to be resolved…and…it is definitely worth a conversation. BUT…if the staff member refuses to get on board then they have to be released to go elsewhere and be a part of something they believe in!” Perry Noble

    Does anyone else notice the red flag here? Notice the great leaps Noble makes in his assumptions?

  6. 6 keitho said on July 15th, 2009:

    @ all,

    Good comments all. Cult is such a trigger word though and I am very reluctant to use it.

    When you strip the theology of the Community Church (NS and others) down to its element, it is Baptist theology of salvation by personal relationship with Jesus, based on acceptance and belief. On this basis, many would be reluctant to question someone’s salvation simply because they decided to leave and go somewhere else. Therein is the difference: in a cult, people not only feel compelled to stay; they believe they cannot leave because they think by doing so they are cutting off their emotional support or worse, leaving God. Staff is a different matter. They are the hired help and money is involved.

    Having visited NS numerous times, my observations suggest to me that there is a considerable amount of attendees (not necessarily members) who feel they can come and go as they please.

    Noble, Furtick, et al can huff and puff all they want about their visions, but the basis of their theology will not allow them to declare their membership and broader attendees as hell bound and outcast for not following them. Unless of course, they decide to throw their theology to the wind. However, if you are on staff, they apparantly can take your paycheck away.

    Therein is the difference in my mind between a cult and what many would think as just another cool place to hang out, worship and listen to some compelling leaders talk about their “vision”.

  7. 7 James Downing said on July 15th, 2009:

    I wouldn’t call them a cult, and I don’t think anyone else did. However, these ultra-charismatic leaders do display cultlike tendencies that should be held in check. My guess would be that most cults start out looking like something good, otherwise people wouldn’t be lured in.

  8. 8 keitho said on July 15th, 2009:

    @ James Downing,

    You said “My guess would be that most cults start out looking like something good, otherwise people wouldn’t be lured in”.

    Well put and accurate.

    Agreed that not any has said NS is a cult, just making sure that others understand that’s not where I am going either.

  9. 9 Micah Taylor said on July 15th, 2009:

    This is pretty scary.

    I wonder what Furtick would say to Paul who, in his wisdom and love for the gospel, went before the Jerusalem Council in Galations 2 to check his vision…