SCOREBOARD is such a great argument! 75

Perry Noble doubled down on his scoreboard retort on Sunday, though it took me until today to really understand what he was saying. Numbers make anything right.

(Why does Noble look so enraged when he lists all those great outcomes?)

I don’t know why I didn’t consider it before, but SCOREBOARD is such a versatile argument and lends itself to so many contexts. I’ve been trying a few out today.

  • Barry Bonds has more home runs than Hank Aaron. SCOREBOARD!
  • Mark Sanford has more exotic friends than you do. SCOREBOARD!
  • Bernie Madoff has more money than you do. SCOREBOARD!
  • Nancy Pelosi has fewer wrinkles than you do. SCOREBOARD!
  • The Octomom has more children than you do. SCOREBOARD!
  • Perry Noble has more people at his church than you do. SCOREBOARD!

I love it. I’ll be sure to use it more often. More always makes things right.

UPDATE: Scratch that. It turns out it’s not such a good argument.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ [Look at the SCOREBOARD, GOD!!!!]

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matthew 7:22-23)

Darn.

75 thoughts on “SCOREBOARD is such a great argument!

  1. Anthony Aug 3, 2009 10:21 am

    I have got way too wrapped up in this blog, I was thinking about this last night. James, you knew that by eventually starting this blog and judging others before yourself that it would come to this. By “this” I mean hate and not love. I have such a passion for Perry’s God driven leadership and the lives that are being changed by Jesus at Newspring that I cant believe someone would question it and judge it daily. While I am not a pastor like some of you may be and while I have said some things on this blog that I am not proud of and am seeking forgiveness for, I cant help but wonder while this blog truly exists. I am praying that God will move my thoughts away from this website because all I have seen since I have been reading this is jealousy, rage, hate and judging. This blog does nothing to further the Kingdom of God and I am praying that I will progressively shy away from it’s false ideals.

    In Luke 6:37-42

    37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” 39 He also told them this parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourselffail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

    Now while this isn’t some verse hidden in the bible, I think it’s meaning is lost and holds no water in the pages of this blog. James, can you honestly say that when you created this blog, the responses that you are now getting werent imagined? What are you doing with this blog to further His kingdom?

    While I said I would be praying to stop paying so much attention to this blog, I truly hope it finds a new identity. Not because it judges someone who I admire whole-heartedly but because it judges God’s children.

  2. MW Aug 3, 2009 12:44 pm

    Duncan,

    I consider you an allie in the grand scheme of things. 🙂

    I just wanted to give him a little credit. There is a pattern from the other side of the argument that is clear. They don’t like their pastor being bashed by someone who doesn’t go to their church and who seems out to get NS. I can see how that would piss someone off. Therefore, I think Ty and the rest of them are responding to this and have a valid point. Don’t mess with someone elses family. You know that if someone set up a blog about your pastor and it became fairly famous and all they were doing was bashing him and exploiting his ideas, it wouldn’t matter what points you disagreed with your pastor on, you would be ticked off and defend him to the bitter end. Again, just saying, you have a lot of people reading this blog and you could do a lot of good with that. Be wise in how you present these arguments. It’s better to have the issues without the names because you won’t be insulting your readers and they may be more open minded.

  3. MW Aug 3, 2009 12:48 pm

    Lauren,

    Brilliant!! hahahahahaha!!! I can’t stop laughing. That was spot on.

  4. James Duncan Aug 3, 2009 12:57 pm

    MW,

    If my pastor regularly attacked other churches and organized Christianity in general on his blog, I think he’d be wise enough to expect it. I also know he’d be smart enough to defend it on more substantive grounds than “Scoreboard.”

    As I’ve said before, I consider PP to be a defensive operation. If PN stops trashing the non-NS church and non-NS Christians, there would be very little for PP to write about.

    Oh, did you happen to find an attack-free PN sermon?

  5. Josh Aug 3, 2009 3:59 pm

    Albert said:

    “Apparently, from reading recent comments, all it takes is a simple hand raise. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see how salvation can be granted with just a hand gesture.”

    I’m not a Perry Noble defender, but I doubt you ever heard PN say that salvation comes from a hand raise. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, plus nothing, minus nothing. If anything, PN tends to confuse the gospel by suggesting that salvation requires us to “follow Jesus” as well. (I wouldn’t say he uses those words exactly,but that’s the inference, IMO.) There is plenty to criticize PN for, but saying that he claims a person is saved by raising his hand at a church service just isn’t true.

    “It takes knowledge–full knowledge of the gospel and just how sad the state the human nature is. The t missing factor is human depravity.”

    Sorry, my bible doesn’t have the book of Albert where the scripture that supports this doctrine is located. My bible says, “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH in him shall receive remission of sins.” Peter said this to Cornelius, an (at that time) unsaved gentile who was nonetheless “devout” and “god-fearing” and whose alms came up as a memorial before the Lord. He wasn’t saved until he received and believed the gospel, of course, but I must have missed the part where Peter told him of his “depravity.” I guess Peter should have listened to some Paul Washer sermons then he could have gotten the gospel right, lol.

  6. Albert Aug 3, 2009 4:32 pm

    Ok, Ok.

    First off, I think I may have tried to fit too many ideas into one post.

    Second, the part about raising hands to signify a salvation was a reference to something that either Anthony or Ty said in a comment. I guess my sarcasm needs some work. I DO NOT think that any physical action saves a sinner.

    Next (Josh), when I talked about depravity, I was trying to make a point on how little the idea is presented at NS (well, really all churches). I base this off of new members I’ve encountered who for some reason think that humans are inherently good. Maybe I’m a little too reformed, but I think that total depravity isn’t taught as much as it should be in churches. *I in no way think that knowledge of depravity is needed for salvation….only that it is very important to a healthy Christian walk and should be realized.* And, no. I haven’t heard PN say that all it takes is a hand raise.

    Folks, (especially Lauren and Josh), I’m sorry for the comment, I promise to try and arrange my thoughts better next time to not be so offensive. And, Lauren, you are right, if you had read what I wrote before your salvation, you probably would have had some negative thoughts.

    My stance in light of these comments:

    I think (and always have) that Salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit working in the life of a person. I do think that acceptance plays a large part in the salvation of the person and I guess this could be manifested by a hand raise in a service.

    Let me gather my thoughts and perhaps I’ll have more to say later.

    Praise be to God.

  7. Albert Aug 3, 2009 4:34 pm

    Also, I like the Washer reference, Josh. haha.

  8. Josh Aug 3, 2009 4:50 pm

    Albert, thanks for your clarification. I jumped on you harder than I should have, to be honest. I try to avoid being the “pompous-correct-everybody-guy,” but sometimes my typin’ fingers have a mind of their own 🙂

  9. Albert Aug 3, 2009 5:03 pm

    I think you and I share the same condition. But in all honesty, thanks for caring enough to write!

  10. Lauren Aug 3, 2009 11:56 pm

    Albert,
    Thanks for your comment. Sometimes these dicussions get “intersting” making points to the way extreme to make a general point. I am getting to know the personalities and enjoy the conversation.

  11. David J Horn Aug 4, 2009 8:35 am

    Here is a quote that made me think about how Perry Noble’s scoreboard:

    “I think that it is so important to know this. In a time like this of tolerance, listen, false teaching will always cry intolerance. It will always say you are being divisive, you are being unloving, you are being ungracious, because it can only survive when it doesn’t get scrutinized. So it cries against any intolerance. It cries against any examination, any scrutiny—just let’s embrace each other; let’s love each other; let’s put all that behind us.

    False doctrine cries the loudest about unity. Listen carefully when you hear the cry for unity, because it may be the cover of false doctrine encroaching. If ever we should follow 1 Thessalonians 5, and examine everything carefully, it’s when somebody is crying unity, love, and acceptance.” John MacArthur

    The danger found in Noble’s advice can create false teachings that will go unchecked because he is too prideful to accept it when people disagree and are critical of his actions/teachings. Noble’s attacks on other churches are just a smokescreen to reply back to critics. Noble’s scoreboard defense is just another smokescreen to attack critics using NS good works. Perry Noble is all about bait and switch.

  12. Tommy F Aug 4, 2009 9:02 am

    Anthony,

    Laugh all you want. I’m actually laughing that you still think he doesn’t read the criticisms.

    He reads this blog or someone close to him reads it and informs him of the content. How do I know?

    Check the timeline.
    1) He used scoreboard as an argument to his critics.
    2) PP posted negative comments about the usefulness and meaning of scoreboard.
    3) The next Sunday: he took special time out of his sermon to comment on blogs and then used scoreboard again as a defense, and even referenced that someone should “blog about that buddy.”

    It’s only one word. It’s such an underwhelming argument. It’s so unhelpful. It’s so weak and shallow. It’s so … Perry.

    You know and I know that he reads it (or someone close to him). SCOREBOARD!!!!
    So to you I say, Anthony, comment about that buddy.

  13. Stephen Aug 7, 2009 12:44 pm

    This video is a solid example of why Atheism and Agnosticism are pretty popular these days. Seeing a Pastor (?) act like a twelve year old while discussing Christianity is really not appealing.

    Carry on!

Comments are closed.