How to pray like a Pharisee

A week or so ago, we were looking at Brad Cooper’s gun-assisted sermon on how worship is a weapon. Although we were rudely interrupted by the Gary Lamb news, a couple of things in his closing prayer warrant a few more bullet points.

In his exposition, he criticizes existing worship styles.

In our evangelical culture we have neutered worship, and we sing empty, superficial posturing.

Then he comes to the prayer:

God, I pray for this culture, that, Lord, we would recognize the potential we have as worshippers of you. That we don’t just sing songs to sing. That we don’t just sing songs because people have done it for hundreds of years. That we don’t just worship you because it’s a sacred cow that people just always constantly do. That it’s not boring, that it’s not weak. God, I ask and beg you for forgiveness for the fact that we have worshipped in a neutered manner in churches all over our world for years.

Now, some un-neutered questions:

• What is sexual worship? If neutered worship is such a bad thing, what is its opposite? Does this explain Perry Noble’s interest in little blue pills? Is this why it’s a good thing to have condoms and sex magazines in church?
• Is worship not sacred? We’ll be doing it constantly in heaven, so what’s wrong with starting now?
• How can worship ever be boring? We’d only worry about that if worship was all about us, or if it was supposed to be something useful to us. You know, like a weapon.
• How does God forgive you for someone else’s sin? Since Cooper obviously doesn’t engage in neutered worship, how is he in a position to ask forgiveness for someone else’s sin? (Leaving off the fact that he hasn’t explained why it is something we need to beg forgiveness for.) The effect, given that the repentance is not being offered on behalf of anyone in the room, is to announce how great and righteous his own worship is. It’s the kind of prayer that Pharisees specialized in. From Luke 18:11:
  

  The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men-robbers, evildoers, adulterers-or even like this tax collector.’

• Is Cooper more important than these kids’ parents? Of the many reasons I wouldn’t recommend NewSpring’s youth group, the most important one is the lack of respect it gives to parents. When Cooper asks forgiveness for the old ways of doing worship, he is quite clearly referring to worship that happens in other churches. The people in his audience are high schoolers, so if they have attended other sinfully worshipping churches, it would have been at the initiative of their parents, many of whom probably still attend those churches. Cooper is telling his kids that their parents have led them into sinful worship.

Cooper got the message about worship as a weapon wrong in the first place, but his self-righteous repentance for sins he doesn’t commit, though his congregation’s parents do, is as aggressive and destructive as the weapon he cradles.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition

A few people around these parts have been insisting that gross errors of misapplying Scripture, as we saw with Noble’s teaching on Simeon, happen so infrequently at NewSpring that we need not be concerned. That being the case, here’s something else they can be unconcerned about.

Brad Cooper posted the sermon he was preparing when we last saw him with an assault weapon. I took a quick listen, as can you here.

His basic point was that worship is a weapon like his gun. (By the way, whoever thought it was “excellence” to open a meeting of high school students with a slow-motion video of a guy spraying bullets, then walking out on stage with the gun? Stupid, stupid, stupid.)

Cooper used a passage from 2 Chronicles 20 in which Judah faces the prospect of annihilation from an overwhelming enemy, and, led by Jehoshaphat, asks God for deliverance. God tells the people that he will save them. In a part of his response he says,

The battle is not yours, but God’s. Tomorrow march down against them…. You will not have to fight this battle.

For most of Cooper’s sermon he reads and applies the story faithfully, but when he comes to the concluding application, he gets it all backwards.

When the men … begin to sing and give praise to God, it was a weapon. …When they started praising–and notice[d?] that praise and worship is a weapon–God starts blowing up the enemy….

Here has been my prayer all week–that God would have some spiritual land mines out here where you’re standing tonight, and that as you rightly praise God, he would start blowing up your flesh, … that he would start blowing up and sending artillery back into your home where you’re facing this struggle, … that it would start sending grenades back into your schools….

As we worship tonight, that’s what our focus is going to be.

Worship is a weapon.

Worship was a consequence of victory, not the cause of it. It was a reaction to God’s power, not the reason for it. It’s a distinction that makes a big difference. The weapons in 2 Chronicles were all God’s; nothing the people of Judah did had anything to do with how God (the battle was his, remember) fought the battle. Cooper is supposing that worship is the cause of victory, which is why he advocates that his congregation engage in assault worship after his sermon.

Note his intended focus in worship–our problems. It’s worship inverted. We focus on ourselves and tell God to do good stuff for us.

Even so, narcissistic worship is still worship, just of a different god.

Translating leadership talk (Virginia edition)

Once again, the translation department of Pajama Pages offers this service for the benefit of our readers. A translation of Noble’s leadership talk at Innovate on Tuesday:

• If you are a pastor in the South, you have to be strapped [own a gun]. BCoop is on the fast track to greatness!!!
• I didn’t say ‘What is it that the deacons or the bloggers want to do in my church?’ Of course I don’t listen to them; this whole experiment is a conversation.
• You gotta’ be stupid to plant a church. Seriously. If you understand this, you understand me.
• God used unschooled, ordinary men to change the world. Paul who? Luke did what?
• People say, ‘The music is too loud.’ Well, you’re going to hate Heaven. That’s why we play Highway to Hell. You’ll love it there.
• If it’s God’s will, it’s God’s bill. That’s what I told the waiter at Sullivan’s yesterday, too, but I don’t think he’s a Christ follower.
• Most churches stick their kids and students in the basement with a woman that knew Moses. It’s just as well, because the stupid church planter wasn’t teaching them much.
• I thought the food fight in the grave yard was a great idea. That’s why they kicked me out of cemetery before I could graduate.
• Here’s how you know you’ve got a vision from God: It makes people mad. God told me I should marry your wife. Hah!
• Christians are the meanest people in the world. Especially the Reformed ones! They’re even worse than Nazis and conservative Republicans.
• Don’t change things just to change things. You’re better off changing things to keep them the same.
• We yell at lost people for acting like lost people. Though my wife hates it when I yell at her while she’s driving. What can I say? I’m working on it.
• Because I haven’t forgotten what it feels like to be lost. Now, can someone help me find the closest Cracker Barrel? I’m really, really hungry.

Tommy reconstructs his censored comments

Tommy F emailed the following report on what happened at the Brad Cooper blog last week. From what I recall from reading the original discussion, his report here is substantively correct.

The gist of my various posts are below (3 were deleted from BCoop’s site). I have not made any attempt to make them either more polite or more pointed. This posting represents both the spirit and, to a large degree, the letter of what I wrote on BCoop’s site. In the originals, there were no offensive words, no expletives, and no personal attacks. In other words, there was no good reason to delete them. You’ll just have to take my word for it.

Apparently 15,000 people don’t care at all that their pastor and his leadership team have 0 seminary degrees among them. Or perhaps they just don’t know, which is why BCoop needed to delete my posts. This is conjecture, of course. But, if the information was incorrect, he could have simply corrected it. If it is true, but he didn’t want it to be publicized, well that takes a slightly different approach, doesn’t it? I call it the enema approach to blogging (H/T: Ace Noble).

On a less personal note: I find it disturbing that a youth minister’s blog feels it necessary to delete posts recommending theological education. Are they against education? Theology? Or just the combination of the two? Seriously.

I confess that I think highly of ministerial education. Is it perfect? No, but I think if all things are equal a seminary trained minister has a wider breadth of knowledge and has shown the proper dedication of basic preparation for his/her calling. I think it’s clear that Paul had a high view of training, the parchments (the scriptures), and clear teaching when he advised Timothy. For a few passages related to this, see: 1 Tim 1:6-7; 1 Tim 5:22; 1 Tim 6:20-21; 2 Tim 3:14-17; 2 Tim 4:1-4; 2 Tim 4:13.

On to the tantalizingly delete-worthy posts:

1) Theblakebutler wrote:

“@ Tommy F- I believe you need to make a distinction between apostles and disciples here if you are going to split hairs and cause dissension.”

My response:

I should begin by saying that I am not trying to cause dissension. As I see it this is a difference of opinion and perspective: I prefer my church leadership to have deep theological training, while others, apparently … not so much.

Blake asked whether I should make a distinction between apostles and disciples. This distinction is important and vital, and I’m glad he brought it up.

From the angle of apostles and disciples, the argument against going to seminary relies precisely on not making a proper distinction. As I understand it, the argument (at its simplest) runs as follows:

The 12 (apostles) never went to seminary, so why should I/we (21^st century disciples)?

There is a big difference between ministering with Jesus in the flesh for 3+ years, listening to him teach, watching him perform miracles, and observing how he dealt with people (both those sympathetic to Jesus’ ministry and those opposed), compared with the situation that Christians find themselves in today.

In fact, I would argue that it is impossible to parallel the experience of the 12 with any discipleship training that could be experienced today. The approach has to be different. Distincitons need to be made between 1^st century followers of Jesus and 21^st century ones.

I would argue further that the 12 experienced both ministerial on-the-job training while learning the requisite teaching required, and still they were stunned by the crucifixion, and were completely surprised that he rose on the third day. All of this, after following him for 3+ years.

Following the example of the 12 as a reason to avoid seminary is a fool’s errand. Too much time has passed, and Jesus is not walking the earth any longer.

On to the other substantive point made by theblakebutler:

“Tommy writes all of the time on other outlets about not preaching from the word, but I cannot find anywhere where getting a degree certifies and qualifies one to stand in a pulpit. Are you claiming that this should be an addendum to the Gospel? Yes we are to equip ourselves, but can a relationship with the father not simply be enough?”



My response:

I do not think that a degree qualifies one to stand in the pulpit, but often it can prepare someone to know what to say and do, once there. But, more importantly a theological education trains one to know what is erroneous and what is true. In other words it has the effect of preparing one for what should be said (truth), as well as what should not be said (error).

Overall, it seems to me that those who say seminary is an option for full-time ministers are trying to divide what Jesus joined: teaching and training coupled with ministry experience.

2) BCoop was not impressed with my follow-up comment, and came back with this gem:

“NS has a rule”…. id beg you to not make assumptions — you know how that can be perceived…

My original reply to BCoop (before he hit the delete button) was:

NS gives advice to young people re: seminary every time they utter the word cemetery regarding ministerial education. In fact, NS has a unified message regarding theological education. They don’t think it’s worthwhile. BCoop, this is not an assumption. It’s a conclusion drawn from evidence:

1) NS leaders explicitly call seminary cemetery. Not exactly a glowing endorsement, is it?

2) No one on their leadership team has completed a seminary degree. No, not one.

I suppose it’s not a rule in the sense that it’s in their operating manual, but it’s a unified stance regarding language and hiring practice. And I am fairly certain that these two points communicate a level of expectation from the students who look up to them and seek guidance. The combination of calling ministerial education cemetery and not having anyone on the leadership team with a seminary degree communicates loud and clear to high school and college students how NS views seminary: “don’t go. Don’t waste your time. We didn’t.”

3) Spencer wrote:

“I’ve been in the trenches four years w/o a degree. i have a friend who is graduating from four years of bible school this month with a degree in youth ministry.

“i’d put my experience versus his academics any day.”



I have a very simple two-fold reply:

1) Any Bible College that allows a ministerial student to finish without substantive ministry experience is not a very good one. If all s/he has is 4 years of classes, and no experience, then your friend should have gone elsewhere.

2) The posting relies on faulty logic. In the scenario Spencer presents, both individuals need to complete their training: he has 4 yrs of ministry, but no education. His friend has 4 yrs of Bible college, but no experience. Neither is fully prepared in my view.

When it comes to ministry and education, it’s not either/or. It’s both/and.

BCooP tweets @TommyF

Lot’s of LIPS TALK, few LIVES EARN THE EQUITY to be HEARD. If people are non-responsive to us, perhaps we should examine our lives…

Tommy, you obviously need a lot of examination.

UPDATE: Tommy, now he has a question for you.

Question: Where are you hiding?

Not to pile on…

…but one would have thought this wasn’t the best day for Cooper to be posting questions like this:

To pursue excellence, the only way to REALLY know our strengths and weaknesses is to ASK others…. Who you asking?

The quote that NewSpring didn’t want you to read

NewSpring’s youth pastor, Brad Cooper, found it necessary to delete this quote from Charles Spurgeon that our friend, Twit, had posted in a discussion on his blog about the merits of an educated clergy.

We do not know what the books were about, and we can only form some guess as to what the parchments were. Paul had a few books which were left, perhaps wrapped up in the cloak, and Timothy was to be careful to bring them. Even an apostle must read. Some of our very ultra Calvinistic brethren think that a minister who reads books and studies his sermon must be a very deplorable specimen of a preacher. A man who comes up into the pulpit, professes to take his text on the spot, and talks any quantity of nonsense, is the idol of many. If he will speak without premeditation, or pretend to do so, and never produce what they call a dish of dead men’s brains—oh! that is the preacher. How rebuked are they by the apostle!

• He is inspired, and yet he wants books!
• He has been preaching at least for thirty years, and yet he wants books!
• He had seen the Lord, and yet he wants books!
• He had had a wider experience than most men, and yet he wants books!
• He had been caught up into the third heaven, and had heard things which it was unlawful for a men to utter, yet he wants books!
• He had written the major part of the New Testament, and yet he wants books!

The apostle says to Timothy and so he says to every preacher, “Give thyself unto reading.” The man who never reads will never be read; he who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men’s brains, proves that he has no brains of his own. Brethren, what is true of ministers is true of all our people. You need to read.

Renounce as much as you will all light literature, but study as much as possible sound theological works, especially the Puritanic writers, and expositions of the Bible. We are quite persuaded that the very best way for you to be spending your leisure, is to be either reading or praying. You may get much instruction from books which afterwards you may use as a true weapon in your Lord and Master’s service. Paul cries, “Bring the books”—join in the cry.

Incendiary stuff there, Rev. Spurgeon. Just as well you didn’t live in an Internet age.

Give me “authentic” advice, but make sure I agree with it first

Over on another outlet, Brad Cooper asked readers for advice for people going into the ministry. Our friend, Tommy, suggested in his usual diplomatic way that seminary might be a good idea.

A spirited discussion ensued and lasted on the site for about a day and a half.

Tonight, it’s been sucked down the memory hole. Deleted. Wiped. Gone.

Twit Conway was also annihilated.

That is bad blogging form. Here’s the proof from the way the site looked this afternoon.

One of Tommy’s comments was a response to Blake. Now we’re left with Blake’s response to Tommy, but not the argument he was responding to. It makes curious reading if you don’t know what happened.

The deleted discussion was about the merits of seminary, in counterpoint to NS’s repeated characterization of it as a cemetery. Twit Conway made the egregious error of quoting Spurgeon. (I assume that now that they no longer have to devote their time to two fora, they might reappear on these friendly pages and tell us what happened. T&T, did you get an explanation or notification from BCoop?)

Apparently disagreeable thoughts are too disturbing for some leaders. It would be nice if they could apply the same passion for ideological purity to what they put on stage during worship.