Comments on: The Worst Sunday Ever at Elevation

By: James Downing

James Downing — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:36:30 +0000

Thanks Paul. Very good explanation, and fully agree.

By: Paul

Paul — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:33:03 +0000

In my defense, i must say that 1. i did not say or ever will is that one must be reformed to be saved. only the repentant sinner who is trusting in Jesus’ righteousness is one who is saved. 2. one can not be reformed, and still be a godly servant of Jesus…case in point…john wesley of whom i have great respect. 3. My point is that theology dictates methods. One who believes responsibility of salvation rests on man in his decision leads one to do a “whatever works” type of evangelism/church service, etc.

By: JT

JT — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:41:45 +0000

Josh said, “I’m not sure when believing on John Calvin became necessary to believe on Jesus Christ.”

Well played, sir. Well played.

By: James Downing

James Downing — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:18:54 +0000

Josh – let’s not turn this into yet another Calvinism debate. Do you have any comments on the post?

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:12:55 +0000

Paul,

If you think a theology of salvation wherein man is justified by his faith in Jesus Christ is flawed, your theology is flawed. I’m not sure when believing on John Calvin became necessary to believe on Jesus Christ. Believing that we are saved if we believe on Christ and damned if we don’t isn’t man-centered; it’s biblical.

By: James Downing

James Downing — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:36:04 +0000

Paul, either your answers are correct, or he does it for the money. I sincerely hope that you are correct.

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:08:00 +0000

true, but then again, that leads to the question, what is the reason behind drawing and appeasing the crowd? why does he do what he does? his theology of salvation and the church anwers that question. man is responsible, so we have to have all the bells and whistles or they won’t come, and church is for unbelievers/seekers, so theology/doctrine is negative. I do think also, he does not understand the true nature of conversion, but that’s another topic.

By: James Downing

James Downing — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:23:15 +0000

Paul, I’m not sure that Furtick’s theology is that linear. I think he is just pragmatic. Whatever will draw and appease the crowd, that’s what he does.

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:35:40 +0000

At the end of the day, it comes down to theology…no matter how much one wants to deny it. What you truly believe always dictates the methods you use. Furtick’s view of the gospel is clearly man-centered. I have heard him deny the doctrines of election and unconditional grace. He sincerely believes that man ultimately is the one responsible for his salvation by the choice he makes. This is the reason why he does what he does. Give him credit, his methods fit his theolgoy. The problem is that many of his methods and practices as pastor and as a church are unbiblical because his theology of salavtion is flawed.

By: keitho

keitho — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:57:45 +0000

Downing, you said, “If people weren’t saved…why not? What if there was an energy crisis? Would Elevation still be a viable ministry, or can God only use them when all their gadgets are up and functioning?”

A good question that raises another: What do we do in worship when the trappings, technology and electricity are taken away? What should worship look like and be like?

James tells us that pure religion is taking care of the orphans and widows and keeping oneself unspotted from the world? I think that sums it up pretty well.