Comments on: Tunnel Vision http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/ Media, Church, Culture Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:51:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6402 Mike Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:19:32 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6402 SFurtick, or PNoble, or Warren to name a few, cannot clearly state a "vision", because what that word means to them seems to be marketing plan. and that must be pliable, as it must change with the market. they often speak of following, meeting, teaching "Jesus" but not realy the one who was totally submitted to the father, who was totally supportive of scripture, who was far less interested in physical needs that eternal ones, who said "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." SFurtick, or PNoble, or Warren to name a few, cannot clearly state a “vision”, because what that word means to them seems to be marketing plan. and that must be pliable, as it must change with the market.
they often speak of following, meeting, teaching “Jesus” but not realy the one who was totally submitted to the father, who was totally supportive of scripture, who was far less interested in physical needs that eternal ones, who said “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”

]]> By: Tommy F http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6400 Tommy F Fri, 23 Oct 2009 03:04:51 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6400 I had a vision yesterday. My vision from God said that SFurtick is a false teacher for affirming extra-biblical visions. I will not compromise this vision from God for anyone for anything or at anytime for any cost. I had a vision yesterday.

My vision from God said that SFurtick is a false teacher for affirming extra-biblical visions.

I will not compromise this vision from God for anyone for anything or at anytime for any cost.

]]> By: Corner Coffee http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6380 Corner Coffee Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:45:38 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6380 Duncan, Despite our deep disagreements on certain things, I do thoroughly enjoy sarcastic wit. (that, by the way, wasn't sarcasm. I really do find it quite amusing.) Duncan,
Despite our deep disagreements on certain things, I do thoroughly enjoy sarcastic wit.

(that, by the way, wasn’t sarcasm. I really do find it quite amusing.)

]]> By: Corner Coffee http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6379 Corner Coffee Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:43:28 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6379 Tommy, Have you emailed the church? My guess is he has been clear about the vision for the church, but perhaps not publicly. But that's just a guess. I really don't know. One thing we do agree on ... if he believes that his "vision" is superior to what is revealed in scripture, then he's wrong. But if scripture is his foundation, and the vision he believes God gave him is compatible with scripture, then there's no harm being done. Tommy,
Have you emailed the church? My guess is he has been clear about the vision for the church, but perhaps not publicly. But that’s just a guess. I really don’t know.

One thing we do agree on … if he believes that his “vision” is superior to what is revealed in scripture, then he’s wrong.

But if scripture is his foundation, and the vision he believes God gave him is compatible with scripture, then there’s no harm being done.

]]> By: James Duncan http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6378 James Duncan Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:17:45 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6378 CC, Those are good questions. I'll try to answer them in a post I'll put up tomorrow. As much as I know you'll be gripped with anticipation, do try to get some sleep tonight. CC,

Those are good questions. I’ll try to answer them in a post I’ll put up tomorrow.

As much as I know you’ll be gripped with anticipation, do try to get some sleep tonight.

]]> By: Tommy F http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6377 Tommy F Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:45:04 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6377 CC, You wrote: "Anyway, I won’t do any guessing as to what his vision is for himself or his church. The fact is (hehe), his vision for himself and his church is either compatible with scripture, or it isn’t. If it isn’t, then case closed … he’s in the wrong. If it is, then case closed … the criticism should stop." This is the problem, isn't it? He didn't say "Question the vision God gave me. Test it. Prove that it is compatible with scripture." And it if it's compatible with scripture, it should take him one blog post to outline. Instead, he proclaims from on high that he's received a vision. Again, where are the tablets (the proof)? Questions are off-limits. They equal disobedience. This is a dangerous spot to be in. Mandating unquestioned authority in a church, by claiming God gave him a vision (which he doesn't even share with others) is over the top. It's the seed of a cult. He's refusing the option to test the vision with scripture. He's making it equal to scripture. CC,

You wrote: “Anyway, I won’t do any guessing as to what his vision is for himself or his church. The fact is (hehe), his vision for himself and his church is either compatible with scripture, or it isn’t. If it isn’t, then case closed … he’s in the wrong. If it is, then case closed … the criticism should stop.”

This is the problem, isn’t it? He didn’t say “Question the vision God gave me. Test it. Prove that it is compatible with scripture.” And it if it’s compatible with scripture, it should take him one blog post to outline. Instead, he proclaims from on high that he’s received a vision.

Again, where are the tablets (the proof)?

Questions are off-limits. They equal disobedience. This is a dangerous spot to be in. Mandating unquestioned authority in a church, by claiming God gave him a vision (which he doesn’t even share with others) is over the top. It’s the seed of a cult. He’s refusing the option to test the vision with scripture. He’s making it equal to scripture.

]]> By: Corner Coffee http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6372 Corner Coffee Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:10:42 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6372 Duncan, Thanks for answering. So, based on the "scripture alone" approach, what scriptural basis do you have to the certainty that scripture alone is the only means of revelation, and not just the foundational means or revelation? So praying for an answer to a tough question is pointless, right? We should simply pray for wisdom to make the best decision, and then read our Bibles more? God's leadership, outside of scripture, is non-existent? (those aren't rhetorical questions, BTW) Duncan,
Thanks for answering.

So, based on the “scripture alone” approach, what scriptural basis do you have to the certainty that scripture alone is the only means of revelation, and not just the foundational means or revelation?

So praying for an answer to a tough question is pointless, right? We should simply pray for wisdom to make the best decision, and then read our Bibles more? God’s leadership, outside of scripture, is non-existent?

(those aren’t rhetorical questions, BTW)

]]> By: James Downing http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6369 James Downing Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:52:09 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6369 Also Coffee, you should read "He is Not Silent" by Al Mohler. Addresses this issue quite well. Also Coffee, you should read “He is Not Silent” by Al Mohler. Addresses this issue quite well.

]]> By: James Duncan http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6368 James Duncan Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:48:51 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6368 CC, You asked two questions: "Are you saying that God has absolutely ceased communicating His will to believers? Or are you just saying that he absolutely only does it through scripture?" Yet you only want a single answer, though if you will allow it, the first answer is no. The second is yes. CC,

You asked two questions: “Are you saying that God has absolutely ceased communicating His will to believers? Or are you just saying that he absolutely only does it through scripture?”

Yet you only want a single answer, though if you will allow it, the first answer is no. The second is yes.

]]> By: James Downing http://www.pajamapages.com/tunnel-vision/comment-page-1/#comment-6367 James Downing Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:25:25 +0000 http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=3599#comment-6367 Coffee - An in depth explanation of Sola Scriptura would require a little more than a quick response. Perhaps a full post is in order on the sufficiency of Scripture and the error of extra-biblical revelation. Many times we discuss things, assuming that some preliminary issues are understood. Coffee – An in depth explanation of Sola Scriptura would require a little more than a quick response. Perhaps a full post is in order on the sufficiency of Scripture and the error of extra-biblical revelation. Many times we discuss things, assuming that some preliminary issues are understood.

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