Why not attack Satan?

Posted: July 29th, 2009 | Author: James Duncan | Tags: , | 26 Comments »

In a couple of recent posts, I have suggested that the devil deserves more respect than is apparent in the language of some church leaders, and explained why the armor of God is designed for defense, not offence.

In what I imagine will be the third and final installment on this topic, let’s look at why the whole concept of picking a fight with Satan is such a bad idea.

  1. He is more powerful than us. When God gives Satan permission to attack Job, with one caveat, look at the destruction Satan wreaks. In short order, his ten children are killed, a large number of servants are killed, and all of his wealth is destroyed. God restricted the scope of Satan’s attack so that he could not kill Job, but the fact that God made the rule suggests that Satan could have done that as well (as he did to his family and servants). Satan has immense–though not absolute–power, and we stir him up against us at our peril (and probably the peril of those closest to us).
  2. It suggests an imperfection in God’s design. Drawing again on Job 1, notice Satan’s answer when God asked him what he was doing: Satan was “roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.” (Job 1:7). God isn’t outraged or surprised; he doesn’t tell him to stop, even though he could have. In fact, God draws Satan’s attention to Job, who becomes a target for the big test.  Elsewhere, we see the devil referred to as the “prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2) and as the “ruler of the world” (John 12:31). These are positions of influence that God, in his infinite wisdom, has allowed Satan to occupy, albeit temporarily. The concept of defeating Satan in an offensive battle suggests that God made a mistake in letting him stick around.
  3. Victory is impossible and absurd. Assuming we could kick in the devil’s head, or skubala his face, what would we achieve? Would we get a week where we would be free from temptation? Would we be able to live without sinning? If I defeat the devil, would others get the same benefits? How many others? How long would it last?
  4. Jesus didn’t do it. Ah hah, you say, but the Bible does tell us to resist the devil and he will flee from us (James 4:7). Indeed it does, but resistance is not quite the same as chasing the defeating the devil as if he were our quarry. When Jesus resisted the devil’s temptations in the desert, Satan came right back with a new challenge. After the third temptation, Jesus told Satan to leave him, which he did, though we see throughout the remainder of the Gospels that Satan kept testing and trying to defeat Christ. We are specifically told that Satan was at work in Judas when he betrayed Christ (Luke 22:3). Satan doesn’t go away for long, so aggressive actions against him have no useful effect, which is why Ephesians 6 is much more practically focused on preparing us for defense.
  5. It attempts to pre-empt the work of Christ. Having established in point #2 that God has given Satan an influential role to play in human affairs, we also know that his defeat is assured, but it is not at our hands. Throughout the book of Revelation we see that it is God alone who has the power, and who promises to, defeat the devil and make all things new (Revelation 12:9-10, 21:4-5).
  6. God told us not to. See here for the beginning of this whole discussion, or for the primary sources, see Jude 8, 2 Peter 2:10-12, and Ephesians 6:13.

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26 Comments on “Why not attack Satan?”

  1. 1 Jim Bowen said on July 29th, 2009:

    Approximately 69 kids accepted Christ while at the Gauntlet! Praise God! It might not fit the theme of Pajama Pages but perhaps you could write a story on the miraculous work of God through the efforts of New Spring.

  2. 2 Sara Crocker said on July 29th, 2009:

    @Jim Bowen

    No need for PP to write a story about that. I’m sure all 90 something staff members have already blogged/tweeted the news. It would just be redundant.

  3. 3 David J said on July 29th, 2009:

    Just wondering Jim Bowen if repentance was explained to these kids at Gauntlet? I mean I can teach a parrot to say,”I accept Jesus as my Lord and I confess my sins” but that does not mean that parrot is going to Heaven. As a former NewSpringer, I was never in a service where repentance was explained and how God draws people to salvation. Just wondering if you were there and if you can answer this question. <-Not trying to be a troll, but that question has been burning in my mind lately about all these numbers of professions.

    Matthew 7:20-23 (New International Version)

    20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    You can't make Jesus name more famous than these people did. I'm genuinely concerned about all these numbers being thrown around without(from what I have seen) repentance being taught and the drawing of God to the lost for salvation.

  4. 4 Tommy F. said on July 29th, 2009:

    Jim,

    Praise God, indeed. That’s BAMF.

    Since it appears you’re for equal opportunity (fair and balanced coverage of NS), I suppose you’re going to make sure the 69 kids visit this blog, right?

  5. 5 James Duncan said on July 29th, 2009:

    David,

    We didn’t report on the conversions (though I’m sure it passed through the PN twitter field once or twice), but it’s not necessary to question them.

    Neither we nor NS know what the exact number of conversions is, so we’d be really dumb to play their scoreboard game by disputing the score.

    People came to Christ last week. For that, we rejoice.

  6. 6 David J said on July 29th, 2009:

    I agree James. My bad… :)

    Maybe I’ll put up a post soon on my blog about the “fruits, repentance, God’s calling, salvation and the nature of false professions” <—I'm not saying these people are not saved from NS, so please understand my concerns. Please excuse my post accepting my apology if I offended anyone because it was off topic.

  7. 7 MW said on July 30th, 2009:

    Jim,

    That is exciting!! I’ll be praying for them and for there perseverence and growth in Christ. Praise the Lord!

  8. 8 KeithO said on July 30th, 2009:

    This post appears to be raising questions concerning numbers of people saved, conversions, decisions, however you want to call it. I have expressed this concern before. So people make decisions for Christ, as if that’s what saves them, but what is the NS (or any other church for that matter) plan to undertake the great commission and go make disciples? I see lots of decisions being made, converts being counted, but the growth opportunities (small group and volunteering) appear to be optional things. I have seen people at NS accept Christ by raising their hand and then “encouraged” to sign up for membership, as if this was optional. Does God not add those being saved to the church? Are there not certain responsbilities we now have, being compelled by Christ’s love?

    Often when I hear the phrase “got saved” I wonder, saved from what? And as BCoop talks about what he is going to do to Satin’s face it makes me wonder; has christianity today been reduced to catchy phrases, sloganeering and feel good platitudes. Yes, this makes people feel good, but are they being engaged fully in heart, soul, mind and strength?

    So my issues with BCoops comment goes well beyond how wrong it is. The comment is, on its face, a catchy phrase that means absolutely nothing. If this is the way we have to talk to our youth to connect them to christ, then they are either dumb or we are for thinking they are that dumb. Either way, Christ may be taught, but how to fully live in his Kingdom is taught not so much.

  9. 9 JT said on July 30th, 2009:

    @KeithO

    You said growth opportunities appear to be optional at NewSpring.

    I’m going to assume you haven’t been to too many NewSpring services. Pretty much every Sunday people are encouraged, pushed, pressured, and guilted about what their “next step is.” Whether that’s salvation, baptism, membership, volunteering, participation in small groups, etc.

    Don’t believe me? Listen to this past Sunday’s sermon (July 26th). Perry Noble straight up told the church that if they are Christians who refuse to further their walk with God by getting involved in ministry, they should leave NS.

  10. 10 Lauren said on July 30th, 2009:

    David J writes “As a former NewSpringer, I was never in a service where repentance was explained and how God draws people to salvation.”
    Seriously, were you in the same church I go to? I hear repentance and how God draws you close ALL THE TIME from the pulpit. Yes, they get pumped about the numbers but to actually watch the life change in the lives of people around you, that’s when you know God is drawing those people close. For Bible know it alls, this should be simple enough. God knows the plans he has laid out for us (Jer 29:11-12) and if it is his will to draw someone to the point of salvation at NS then it will happen at NS.
    KeithO writes “I see lots of decisions being made, converts being counted, but the growth opportunities (small group and volunteering) appear to be optional things.”
    It appears to optional because it is optional. Keith, at your church what is the percentage of members that is volunteering? Just saying….no church has a 100% rate so it is optional at every church.
    I am with MW, discussing topics is fine and I enjoy seeing different point of views but all this name calling….. Sheesh. The issues you bring up are not NS specific. Every church has had salvations where the life change doesn’t happen, no church has 100% participation.

  11. 11 keithO said on July 30th, 2009:

    Lauren,

    Agree these issues are not new to NS. I think I said that.And I am also not sure what you saw in my comment that is considered name calling. I am just concerned with what I see as a dumbing down effect that is not unique to NS, but seems to be evident there in a significant way. Thanks for your response.

  12. 12 Lauren said on July 30th, 2009:

    KeithO…..
    The name calling comment was in general about this blog, at no one specific person.
    I can’t speak for the whole church but I am not dumbing down anything. I realize that church is not perfect.

  13. 13 James Downing said on July 30th, 2009:

    Why did you call people Bible know-it-alls, since you are against name calling?

  14. 14 Lauren said on July 30th, 2009:

    I thought it would be a compliment to the extensive knowledge of the bible to those it applies, I didn’t direct it towards anyone or even use grammar that would indicate I would like to and if the show fits wear it. Wear it proudly.

  15. 15 MW said on July 30th, 2009:

    Lauren,

    I agree. I have been to the night services at NS off and on. I am a youth pastor at a church in town so I don’t go very often, but occasionally I’ll have a few friends ask me to come with them. Every time I’ve gone I’ve heard something about being a part of small groups and discipleship. I know for a fact that this is becoming something that is more and more important for PN and BCoop. This hasn’t always been the case, but I know they are convicted about this and doing it! I don’t think they would ever say that the decision alone saves. They believe that salvation is worked out in faith, works and perseverence. Once God saves us, our faith comes with these things as James 2 tells us. A believers response to the gospel, if genuine will always be to desire to be engaged in fellowship, obedience and he WILL persevere to the end.

    I don’t mind NS asking kids to make a decision for Christ. There were 3,000 people in Acts that were saved and baptized in one day! They were called that day to a decision. Anytime someone hears the gospel they are directly or indirectly called to make a decision. I think that is awesome!

    I hear some people on hear questioning numbers but the hard fact that we all have to face is that we cannot peak into the heart of any man. Even members of the church who have professed faith and seem to be living a righteous life. We cannot see their heart and we therefore cannot judge.

    We don’t want to give false assurance to the ones that simply made a decision though. They must know that their salvation must produce fruit. They must “work out their salvation in fear and trembling” Phil. 2:12. They must also understand that they must persevere (Hebrews 10:36, James 1:12).

    When there is true faith, this happens:
    2 Peter 1:5-9

    “For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.”

    I love that so many made a decision this past week at the gauntlet! That gets me jacked up for the gospel! and I pray that each one of them will pick up his cross and continue to follow Christ to the end.

  16. 16 David J said on July 30th, 2009:

    I just wish Noble and Cooper lead by better examples(and take your advice MW 2 Peter 1:5-9).

    Here is one of my blogs I feel could do Noble and Cooper some good “if” they would think about what I’m discussing:

    http://davidjhorn.blogspot.com/2009/07/sour-milk.html

  17. 17 Jim Bowen said on July 30th, 2009:

    A little taken back by some of these comments. I wanted to comment on something positive and was not expecting some responses to question these salvations.

    No, I was not in attendance. I did ask my grandson some of these questions and his answer was, yes, repentance was the most discussed point. He did not know the reason for my question so I take him at his word.

    With the types of numbers of salvations that New Spring has reported in recent years I think it would be safe to say that there would be a percentage of attendees that did not understand the decision they were professing. Even if one half of these reported salvations fell into that category that would still mean that close to 40 young people gave their life to Christ. That is worth celebrating and discussing no matter the forum. If it were only 40 kids, that would be 4% of those in attendance. If 4% of a small church congregation of 200 (8 people) accepted Christ in a particular Sunday most Southern Baptist churches would declare revival. Perhaps revival has started at New Spring?

  18. 18 James Duncan said on July 30th, 2009:

    Jim,

    I am sorry, too, that your opening comment opened up a pretty pointless discussion. This is a great example of the stupidity of the “scoreboard” retort that PN uses. When you answer criticism by pointing to a number, you have to expect that people might question that number.

    When Acts counts the 3,000 in Acts, who was counting? God.

    When we try to do the same thing, we’re counting stuff that we just don’t know.

    Using such numbers as a defense for truth is just foolish (not that that’s what you were doing, Jim, but it is what PN seems to be doing more and more).

  19. 19 MW said on July 30th, 2009:

    Jim,

    I agree! God is working! The fact of the matter is that we should all be able to rejoice over one soul won to Christ, not to mention 65. That’s great, and I will continue to pray for their growth in Christ.

  20. 20 MW said on July 30th, 2009:

    Duncan

    Doug Wilson in a book I was just reading, says we should take all men at their word when it comes to their salvation until they prove otherwise. He gets this from the idea of the our innability to discern who is in the visible and invisible church. God doesn’t distinguish that for us. In other words, we can peek into the hearts of man and judge their salvation. God hasn’t given us that ability.

    When a man professes faith you believe him until he stops repenting for his sins and then through excommmunication you (the elders) treat him as a non-believer (not judge their heart, but TREAT him that way) If he comes back and repents then you continue to treat him as a believer. Once someone is baptized we treat them as a brother in Christ until they are excommunicated from the church for lack of repentence.

    This idea allows us to love our brother without judging his heart or ever saying “there is no way he is a believer because…” Now this also means that the elders must practice church discipline well, but if done right it keeps us from trying to issue a verdict based off of our assumption of what we think they “get” or “don’t get” about scripture.

    If these guys have professed faith and are baptized I think we should believe them until they prove otherwise. It’s a very dangerous road you are walking down when you question someones salvation. Be careful that you don’t hold a standard up that will be held up to you one day. Just trying to help you out brother.

  21. 21 James Duncan said on July 30th, 2009:

    MW, I am not questioning anyone’s salvation. In fact, I reproved someone early on in this discussion for seeming to do that.

    What I am questioning is the large-scale counting of “decisions” as a defense for any error or action tangentially related to the ministry that witnessed those decisions.

    I rejoice for the sinners who were saved by Christ. I’m less impressed with the evangelist bashing me over the head with those new converts.

  22. 22 MW said on July 30th, 2009:

    Gotcha! missed that point somewhere. Thanks!

  23. 23 KeithO said on August 4th, 2009:

    JT,

    Been away for awhile, so I apolgize for being late in responding. Back to your response to an earlier comment I made, I have only been to NS a few times, and I defer to you on how people are motivated to sign up, volunteer, or otherwise get involved. My observations are just that, observations based on limited experiences. I do draw general concerns from these experiences, and my biggest concern still is the cathcy phrases, the sloganeering or anything else that does not engage people fully in heart, mind, soul and strength. I am making a distinction between a person’s response, and how this decision, or commitment ultimately impacts that person’s life. It is my hope that the people who raise their hands in commitment today, would be fully engaged in the christian life in the future. I was simply asking, what are churches in general, and NS in particular, doing to make disciples, fully engaged in heart, mind, soul and strength? And because they seem to place importance on numbers, are they more concerned about the numbers that respond for salvation, when they should be more concerned about the numbers of people who grow as disciples?

  24. 24 JT said on August 4th, 2009:

    Keith O,

    Nice comments. It brings up a vital question for all churches: How do we balance evangelism and discipleship.

    On a personal level, most of my life I’ve spent in churches where the focus was almost entirely on discipleship– to the point that people very rarely ever came to Christ through the ministries of those churches (which proves they really weren’t discipling, were they?).

    Part of the problem with people’s perceptions of NewSpring is that because the Sunday services are so intense and powerful, and because it is not uncommon for literally hundreds of people to come to faith in Christ on any given Sunday, outsiders assume that there is no discipleship going on.

    Here is what they don’t see:
    Weekly small groups
    New believers classes
    Marital, financial, and other types of counseling
    Membership classes
    Scores of ministry opportunities

    Yes, Perry Noble tells the church to bring their friends so that they will hear the gospel. But in no way is that ever presented as the sole duty of a Christian.

    And the last comment I’ll make in these rambling remarks– We cannot make disciples if we don’t first share the gospel with them.

  25. 25 JT said on August 4th, 2009:

    And incidentally, installing systems for discipleship is something that NewSpring failed to do properly for many years. They have readily admitted to that.

  26. 26 KeithO said on August 4th, 2009:

    JT,

    I don’t know that we should balance evangelism and discipleship. Unless you are talking about discipleship in the way it is generally understood today in most churches. By this we would mean classes, Sunday school, volunteering to do church work, and any other activities that tend to support the care and feeding of the church organization, while perhaps doing little to teach people how to live out Jesus’ teachings as they go to work, as they live in their neighborhoods, and as they interact in the community.

    Now back to Satan. Those who grow in discipleship will be ever cautious of trying to pick a fight with Satan. We begin to understand more and more by spending time with the Word how subtle Satan can be and why we should leave his defeat to God. BCoop’s bold talk would perhaps not be so bold in the future as he grows more in the faith.

    As for me, though not a perfect man by any stretch, I did learn the idea of not messing with Satan early on in Sunday School.